Dr Phil Parker talks with Judy DeLozier, author, trainer and early developer of NLP.

Judy gained her masters in comparative religion and anthropology from UCSC before becoming a pioneer in personal development in the 1970s, specialising in the importance of the body in change processes. Listen as she discusses hanging out with Gregory Bateson, philosopher, anthropologist and systems thinker and Milton Erickson, one of the worlds' most famous clinical hypnotherapist, and what she'd love you to learn from her experiences.