Andy and Derek discuss passage from Jim Loder on ministers who callus over after getting hurt in ministry. Derek and Andy dig into whether pastoral care is really a "helping profession" at all, turning to Bonhoeffer's idea of the pastor as permanent place-sharer — more parent than therapist — and why the office, not the personality, is what holds a pastor through disappointment.

Andy sends Derek a screenshot of a Jim Loder passage he's frantically highlighted and it sparks a conversation about "convictional neurosis," the tendency in mainline churches to bury real encounters with God.

Andy and Derek discuss the complexities of ministering in communities, transparency, and whether the minister's personal life is the business of the congregation

Most churches talk about how they "want more young people".  Andy and Derek dive into why age has become the metric for whether a church has a future and how this isn't really what holds churches together.

Andy answers a listener e-mail about "being as becoming", the difference it makes for those in ministry, and how it shapes and transforms our understanding about how God moves and acts in the secular age.

What does a private baptism request have to do with your podcast feed? More than you'd think.

Andy and Derek explore “post-human” ministry, AI, the future of vocation, and the meaning of life.  Derek also shares his strategy for the coming robot apocalypse.

Andy and Derek discuss Andy's new book "Baal and the Gods of More".  They discuss the trappings of resources and wanting more, and how the God of the Israelites calls us to grow into relationship rather than resources.

Derek texts Andy in the middle of the ICE raids in Minneapolis asking how the he's supposed to pastor through this. Andy thinks the answer has everything to do with Bonhoeffer — and nothing to do with heroism.

Andy saw Hamnet and wept in the theater. When he told other people, they called it "grief porn." Andy now thinks our culture has engineered away the spaces where feeling too much is the whole point. Andy and Derek dig into Byung-Chul Han, Shakespeare, and the ancient human need to mourn together in community. Meanwhile, Derek watched Hamnet alone and cried on his couch.