As a ministry leader, if you were asked “Who are you discipling,” how would you answer? What if we said preaching and leading classes don’t count? Starts getting real, real fast! In this episode, Timmy Hensel & Melissa Brotherton return for a round table discussion about why this question can be uncomfortable, yet so necessary to keep at the forefront of our ministry. We’ll get practical in implementing discipleship practices, what gets in the way of actually doing it, creating a discipleship culture in our church, shifting away from the shame of asking the question, and ultimately measuring fruitfulness in the process. 

Whether we stay on script, or not, this Shop Talk is for you–er, I mean, your friend!

Resources Highlighted in this Interview: 

• DiscipleShift: Five Steps That Help Your Church to Make Disciples Who Make Disciples by Jim Putman & Bobby Harrington with Robert Coleman
• Ordinary Discipleship: How God Wires Us for the Adventure of Transformation by Jessie Cruickshank
• After Doubt: How to Question Your Faith Without Losing It by A.J. Swoboda

Guest Bio:

Timmy Hensel and his wife 'Tisha are the co-pastors of River Church Family in Kansas City, Missouri. They’re high school sweethearts that have been happily married for 25 years and have three children: Kai, Asher and Brynnlie. Together with their church family they own and operate a community swimming pool and helped to launch a local nonprofit transitional housing program, River of Refuge. Timmy serves as the Central Southeast Regional Pastor overseeing Foursquare churches in Missouri, Arkansas, Oklahoma, Louisiana, Mississippi and parts of Kansas and Illinois. Timmy graduated from Life Pacific College in 2002 with a BA in Biblical Studies and in 2017 with a MA in Strategic Leadership. He was ordained in the Foursquare Church in 2005. 

Timmy is humbled and honored to serve, develop, and celebrate other pastors and leaders throughout our Foursquare family. Timmy loves his city and spends time connecting through various social communities, raising awareness for causes that benefit their neighbors, and involvement in local opportunities to support individuals who have special needs, like his daughter Brynnlie. Timmy loves the sound of frogs and thinks it's God's special way of saying He loves him.

Melissa Brotherton is the lead pastor of Hope Boulder Foursquare church in Boulder, CO, the Foursquare Central District Women’s Mobilizer and a chaplain for the Boulder Fire Department.

She was born and raised in the shadow of Mount Rainier in the Pacific Northwest. She now calls the shadow of the Rocky Mountains (in Colorado) home, where she lives with her husband and four children. She’s a voracious reader, a lackadaisical knitter, an avid Seahawks fan, and deeply devoted to Jesus and her family.

Melissa has a masters in Strategic Leadership from Life Pacific University and is passionate about seeing people step into their true identity as image-bearers of Christ and what that means for how they live their lives.

Episode Credits: 

Audio Engineer & Editing by AJ Williams

Produced by Chad Garrison

Connect With Ministry w/o Hating It:
Our LinkTree | Support MWH @ Buy Me A Coffee
Thanks for listening! If this podcast is a helpful resource to you, please consider subscribing, leaving a review and sharing it with others.

In this episode, we sit down with the ever-positive Pastor Lesli Klingenmeier! Through the lens of her decades in Children’s Ministry, and as a denominational leader, Lesli shares wisdom on the value of bi-vocational ministry, the changing landscape of Kids Ministry and the importance of always sharing stories. Lesli believes that when navigating through the challenges of ministry, the path to greater positivity is as simple as shifting our focus to what could be, over what is. 

Lesli also gets BONUS points for incorporating her own pastoral alliteration in the interview. Let’s fire it up!

Resources Highlighted in this Interview: 

• Connect further with Lesli Here
• Info on the Cornerstone Project

Guest Bio:

Lesli often jokes that she’s a bit of a poster child for the Foursquare Church. Her grandparents were part of the founding families of the Amherst Foursquare Church in Ohio, and Lesli grew up through the church attending kids camp, youth camps, and whatever Foursquare event she could find.

She first sensed a call to ministry as a teenager, especially through her experiences at summer camps. But after some loving encouragement from her parents to get a “real career,” Lesli went to college, earning a bachelor’s degree in Psychology and a master’s degree in Occupational Therapy. She worked as an occupational therapist for five years before God made it clear it was time to step away from a stable career and follow His lead into full-time ministry. Making that decision at 28 was both terrifying and freeing.

Her first ministry role was part-time as a Children’s Pastor at her home church, where she ended up serving for 12 years and watching God do incredible things in both the church and the community. From there, Lesli served for 10 years as the NextGen Coordinator for the Northeast Atlantic District, working with and training leaders across 15 states as well as coordinating youth and kids camps and young adult retreats.

Since 2020, Lesli has returned to local church ministry at GrowPoint Church in Amherst. She describes herself as a “utility pastor,” helping wherever needed, with a primary focus on leading Kids Ministry and Women’s Ministry, two areas she deeply loves. Lesli also serves as a Lead Coach for the national Foursquare Cornerstone Project where she coaches NextGen leaders across the U.S. in leading their churches to deepen their focus on family discipleship.

At the heart of everything Lesli does is a passion to see people of all ages grow in their love for Jesus and become thriving followers of Christ for a lifetime. Lesli's favorite season of the year is summer and loves anything summer-related, especially golf, and can usually be found on the course every Friday playing in a local women’s league.

Episode Credits: 

Audio Engineer & Editing by AJ Williams

Produced by Chad Garrison

Connect With Ministry w/o Hating It:
Our LinkTree | Support MWH @ Buy Me A Coffee
Thanks for listening! If this podcast is a helpful resource to you, please consider subscribing, leaving a review and sharing it with others.

If I love hard, it’s going to cost me something. That is what our first guest of Season Five, Foursquare Central District Supervisor and Pastor, Antonio Sims, leads with as he jumps all into the ministry set before him. In this episode, Antonio shares how his desire to love well comes from a history of pain points, and how it has translated into his roles as a church planter, pastor and denomination leader. If I truly love others, I should feel it–and expect a praise report.

We also definitively mark the best decade, and certainly date ourselves doing it, so let’s fire this season up!

Resources Highlighted in this Interview: 

• To connect further with Antonio click here

Guest Bio:

Antonio Sims is the Foursquare Central District Supervisor and an ordained Foursquare pastor with a deep passion for transformation at every level, within organizations, cities, and individuals. As the founder and co-pastor of True Worship Church, Antonio and his wife, Nina, are dedicated to serving the Detroit community.

With a heart for leadership development, Antonio mentors and coaches church planters, equipping them to build thriving, impactful ministries. His leadership extends beyond the local church, having served on the board of the Foursquare Church and currently on the board of the International Hope Center.

Antonio holds an MBA with a ministry focus and a Master’s in Human Services Counseling with a concentration in Executive Leadership. His diverse experiences include serving as a U.S. Marine, bringing a unique blend of discipline, resilience, and strategic vision to his work. Born in Vietnam and raised in Detroit, Antonio is deeply committed to both his faith and his family. He and Nina are proud parents of six children and grandparents to one beautiful grandson.

Episode Credits: 

Audio Engineer & Editing by AJ Williams

Produced by Chad Garrison

Connect With Ministry w/o Hating It:
Our LinkTree | Support MWH @ Buy Me A Coffee
Thanks for listening! If this podcast is a helpful resource to you, please consider subscribing, leaving a review and sharing it with others.

Is it possible to get to a place in ministry where things seem easy, and less challenging? Bi-vocational Pastor, Chad Halverson, says, “Yes”. But it’s not the promised land that you might think. In this episode, Chad recalls the major shift he experienced going from only ever being in full-time vocational ministry to moving cross country twice within a year, picking up two marketplace jobs, and all the lessons he is still learning from stepping outside of the insecurity of what is "safe".

You’re getting two Chad’s for the price of one for this season’s finale, so let’s get to it!

Resources Highlighted in this Interview: 

• Connect further with Chad at wintersetfoursquare.org

Guest Bio:

Chad Halverson has served in the Pastoral ministry for over 30 years. Since leaving full time vocational ministry in 2022, he and his family have settled in Winterset, IA where he is an assisting minister in the Winterset Foursquare Church. He vocationally works for a large farm coop, but continues to have a heart for the local church, church health and pastoral care. 

Growing up in the Midwest, he attended Life Pacific University and has been a licensed Foursquare Pastor since 1996. He is married to his beautiful wife, Kerri, of 23 years and has four (mostly) amazing kids. This new bi-vocational chapter in his life has been a challenge, and a great reminder of God’s desired presence in the secular, everyday, mundane Monday through Friday weekly life.

Episode Credits: 

Audio Engineer & Editing by AJ Williams

Produced by Chad Garrison

Connect With Ministry w/o Hating It:
Our LinkTree | Support MWH @ Buy Me A Coffee
Thanks for listening! If this podcast is a helpful resource to you, please consider subscribing, leaving a review and sharing it with others.

Ministry is a lot like bull riding. Each day you wake up, and you never know which bull you’re gonna get. In this episode Pastor and Church Planter, Jesse Lambert, unpacks the adventure that has been his journey to serve God’s Church. Jesse talks about how he’s learned to walk out practically, “this is God’s church, made up of hurting people and I am a tool to bring healing.” And that journey may not take you to where you thought you were going. 

We’re doin’ the blue for this one, so let’s get at it!

Resources Highlighted in this Interview: 

• Connect further with Jesse at The Refuge Texas

Guest Bio:

Jesse Lambert grew up as a military kid and later went and served his country as a United States Marine. The military was a huge part of the Lambert family…one could say it was family tradition as 90% of the family served at one point in their lives. Jesse is one of those guys that can do most anything…and since his military he has owned several small businesses, he even ran remote cameras as an assistant producer for live shows in Branson, MO.

Jesse has been married for 23 years to his wife Rebecca and together they have two amazing boys. Asher is 15 and Gideon is 12…they all serve the Lord as a family and enjoy time away in nature…either in the mountains snowboarding or at the beach Surfing!

Now the Lord is using him and his stories to lead others to Jesus as a Pastor of The Refuge TX in Georgetown, TX. In the past Jesse has served the community and church by helping in children's church, youth group, and leading adults in community groups.

Jesse has been involved in everything from media teams and set-up/tear down to leading men and family groups. Folks love that he is approachable and kind, and he challenges them to grow as disciples of Jesus and as leaders in their community. Jesse is an anointed speaker, and feels humbled that the Holy Spirit would choose to use him to serve in His church.

Episode Credits: 

Audio Engineer & Editing by AJ Williams

Produced by Chad Garrison

Connect With Ministry w/o Hating It:
Our LinkTree | Support MWH @ Buy Me A Coffee
Thanks for listening! If this podcast is a helpful resource to you, please consider subscribing, leaving a review and sharing it with others.

If the Lord asked you to lay everything down tomorrow, could you do it? It’s a self-awareness leveling question our guest, Pastor Timmy Hensel, now asks frequently. In this episode Timmy shares how he had never experienced what feels like and means to lay everything down until he recently took a sabbatical. Leaders, you have permission to rest. And this isn’t just for your benefit–laying things down empowers others and ultimately builds our future together. 

Timmy also drops some pastoral alliteration like a pro–you gotta hear it!

Resources Highlighted in this Interview: 

• Sabbatical Resources
• Connect further with Timmy: [email protected], River Church Family, River Community Pool, River of Refuge

Guest Bio:

Timmy Hensel and his wife 'Tisha are the co-pastors of River Church Family in Kansas City, Missouri. They’re high school sweethearts that have been happily married for 25 years and have three children: Kai, Asher and Brynnlie. Together with their church family they own and operate a community swimming pool and helped to launch a local nonprofit transitional housing program, River of Refuge. Timmy serves as the Central Southeast Regional Pastor overseeing Foursquare churches in Missouri, Arkansas, Oklahoma, Louisiana, Mississippi and parts of Kansas and Illinois. Timmy graduated from Life Pacific College in 2002 with a BA in Biblical Studies and in 2017 with a MA in Strategic Leadership. He was ordained in the Foursquare Church in 2005. 

Timmy is humbled and honored to serve, develop, and celebrate other pastors and leaders throughout our Foursquare family. Timmy loves his city and spends time connecting through various social communities, raising awareness for causes that benefit their neighbors, and involvement in local opportunities to support individuals who have special needs, like his daughter Brynnlie. Timmy loves the sound of frogs and thinks it's God's special way of saying He loves him.

Episode Credits: 

Audio Engineer & Editing by AJ Williams

Produced by Chad Garrison

Connect With Ministry w/o Hating It:
Our LinkTree | Support MWH @ Buy Me A Coffee
Thanks for listening! If this podcast is a helpful resource to you, please consider subscribing, leaving a review and sharing it with others.

There’s nothing harder than serving the NextGen Ministry. At least according to our guest, Pastor Joe Martin. In this episode, Joe shares how being a second generation NextGen focused Pastor isn’t just a role, but a continued obedience to God’s call in his life. Together we unpack the challenges and current trends of NextGen ministry, and discuss how getting back to the basics will reach the next generation. We’re bringin’ the serious ‘stache to this one, so listen up!

Resources Highlighted in this Interview: 

• To connect further with Joe at lifebridgechurch.com/about
• Living Fearless by Jamie Winship
• Canoeing the Mountains by Todd Bolsinger  

Guest Bio:

Joe Martin has served in NextGen ministry for over 12 years and loves to help young people realize their potential in Christ. Along with his wife Becca and their two girls, Kennedy & Madelyn...Joe moved to Fort Wayne, IN from the west coast to serve at Life Bridge Church as the NextGen pastor and The Bridge College Director. Joe also serves as a Regional NextGen Mobilizer in the Central District of Foursquare focused on connecting, collaborating, caring for, and celebrating all NextGen leaders in the central east region.

Joe holds a BA in Ministry & Leadership from Ohio Christian University and an MA in Strategic Leadership from LPU.

Episode Credits: 

Audio Engineer & Editing by AJ Williams

Produced by Chad Garrison

Connect With Ministry w/o Hating It:
Our LinkTree | Support MWH @ Buy Me A Coffee
Thanks for listening! If this podcast is a helpful resource to you, please consider subscribing, leaving a review and sharing it with others.

How do we combat stagnation, cultivate fresh vision and lead others to experience God in fresh ways? What if we told you it has a lot to do with the creativity you unlock through the building of your own imagination? In this episode, BrianJames McMahon once again returns to unpack the practice of widening the capacity of what we see and engage through our imaginations. This practice not only expands the parameters of how much of God we experience ourselves, but also in how we lead others in experiencing God in fresh, new ways.

Resources Highlighted in this Interview: 

• Church Well Co Website
• BrianJames Therapy Website
• Connect further with Brian James at Instagram: @brianjamesmcmahon @church_well_co

Guest Bio:

BrianJames McMahon is a pastor, counselor, and founder of both Church Well Co, and BrianJames Therapy. He works with pastors, churches, and communities to develop safe(r) relational and emotional spaces for healing and connection.

BrianJames cares deeply that the Church of Jesus embodies the person of Jesus with beauty, bravery, and connection.Never one to shy away from messiness and pain, he has committed his life to helping leaders honestly face the pain present in their lives and callings and to walk into the fullness of the life Jesus has for them in honesty, openness, and bravery.

Episode Credits: 

Audio Engineer & Editing by AJ Williams

Produced by Chad Garrison

Episode Artwork Photo by Warren on Unsplash

Connect With Ministry w/o Hating It:
Our LinkTree | Support MWH @ Buy Me A Coffee
Thanks for listening! If this podcast is a helpful resource to you, please consider subscribing, leaving a review and sharing it with others.

This probably goes without saying, but: We believe in Women in Ministry Leadership. That said, in this episode Pastor Melissa Brotherton shares her ministry journey as a female Lead Pastor has formed her ministry as denominational Women’s Mobilizer. Melissa candidly unpacks the psychological, sociological and theological challenges women in ministry face, while speaking encouragement to men and women alike to be functioning together as image-bearers of Christ.

We may have also brought new meaning to the term, “sheep trauma”.

Resources Highlighted in this Interview: 

• Tempered Resilience by Todd Bolsinger 
• Foursquare Women’s Mobilizer Page
• Hope Boulder Website 
• To connect further with Melissa: Instagram, or email here

Guest Bio:

Melissa Brotherton is the lead pastor of Hope Boulder Foursquare church in Boulder, CO, the Foursquare Central District Women’s Mobilizer and a chaplain for the Boulder Fire Department.

She was born and raised in the shadow of Mount Rainier in the Pacific Northwest. She now calls the shadow of the Rocky Mountains (in Colorado) home, where she lives with her husband and four children. She’s a voracious reader, a lackadaisical knitter, an avid Seahawks fan, and deeply devoted to Jesus and her family.

Melissa has a masters in Strategic Leadership from Life Pacific University and is passionate about seeing people step into their true identity as image-bearers of Christ and what that means for how they live their lives.

Episode Credits: 

Audio Engineer & Editing by AJ Williams

Produced by Chad Garrison

Connect With Ministry w/o Hating It:
Our LinkTree | Support MWH @ Buy Me A Coffee
Thanks for listening! If this podcast is a helpful resource to you, please consider subscribing, leaving a review and sharing it with others.

Ministry leaders will experience levels of pain, grief and relational struggle that most others will not–it just comes with the territory. What if instead of powering through, withdrawing from or finding ways to cope, we just took time to lament it instead? In this Soul Check episode, our friend BrianJames McMahon returns to unpack how powerful lament can be in our ministry journeys.

Resources Highlighted in this Interview: 

• Church Well Co Website
• BrianJames Therapy Website
• SLOW Journal
• Connect further with Brian James at Instagram: @brianjamesmcmahon @church_well_co

Guest Bio:

BrianJames McMahon is a pastor, counselor, and founder of both Church Well Co, and BrianJames Therapy. He works with pastors, churches, and communities to develop safe(r) relational and emotional spaces for healing and connection.

BrianJames cares deeply that the Church of Jesus embodies the person of Jesus with beauty, bravery, and connection.Never one to shy away from messiness and pain, he has committed his life to helping leaders honestly face the pain present in their lives and callings and to walk into the fullness of the life Jesus has for them in honesty, openness, and bravery.

Episode Credits: 

Audio Engineer & Editing by AJ Williams

Produced by Chad Garrison

Episode Artwork Photo by Warren on Unsplash

Connect With Ministry w/o Hating It:
Our LinkTree | Support MWH @ Buy Me A Coffee
Thanks for listening! If this podcast is a helpful resource to you, please consider subscribing, leaving a review and sharing it with others.