This probably goes without saying, but: We believe in Women in Ministry Leadership. That said, in this episode Pastor Melissa Brotherton shares her ministry journey as a female Lead Pastor has formed her ministry as denominational Women’s Mobilizer. Melissa candidly unpacks the psychological, sociological and theological challenges women in ministry face, while speaking encouragement to men and women alike to be functioning together as image-bearers of Christ.

We may have also brought new meaning to the term, “sheep trauma”.

Resources Highlighted in this Interview: 

• Tempered Resilience by Todd Bolsinger 
• Foursquare Women’s Mobilizer Page
• Hope Boulder Website 
• To connect further with Melissa: Instagram, or email here

Guest Bio:

Melissa Brotherton is the lead pastor of Hope Boulder Foursquare church in Boulder, CO, the Foursquare Central District Women’s Mobilizer and a chaplain for the Boulder Fire Department.

She was born and raised in the shadow of Mount Rainier in the Pacific Northwest. She now calls the shadow of the Rocky Mountains (in Colorado) home, where she lives with her husband and four children. She’s a voracious reader, a lackadaisical knitter, an avid Seahawks fan, and deeply devoted to Jesus and her family.

Melissa has a masters in Strategic Leadership from Life Pacific University and is passionate about seeing people step into their true identity as image-bearers of Christ and what that means for how they live their lives.

Episode Credits: 

Audio Engineer & Editing by AJ Williams

Produced by Chad Garrison

Connect With Ministry w/o Hating It:
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Thanks for listening! If this podcast is a helpful resource to you, please consider subscribing, leaving a review and sharing it with others.

Ministry leaders will experience levels of pain, grief and relational struggle that most others will not–it just comes with the territory. What if instead of powering through, withdrawing from or finding ways to cope, we just took time to lament it instead? In this Soul Check episode, our friend BrianJames McMahon returns to unpack how powerful lament can be in our ministry journeys.

Resources Highlighted in this Interview: 

• Church Well Co Website
• BrianJames Therapy Website
• SLOW Journal
• Connect further with Brian James at Instagram: @brianjamesmcmahon @church_well_co

Guest Bio:

BrianJames McMahon is a pastor, counselor, and founder of both Church Well Co, and BrianJames Therapy. He works with pastors, churches, and communities to develop safe(r) relational and emotional spaces for healing and connection.

BrianJames cares deeply that the Church of Jesus embodies the person of Jesus with beauty, bravery, and connection.Never one to shy away from messiness and pain, he has committed his life to helping leaders honestly face the pain present in their lives and callings and to walk into the fullness of the life Jesus has for them in honesty, openness, and bravery.

Episode Credits: 

Audio Engineer & Editing by AJ Williams

Produced by Chad Garrison

Episode Artwork Photo by Warren on Unsplash

Connect With Ministry w/o Hating It:
Our LinkTree | Support MWH @ Buy Me A Coffee
Thanks for listening! If this podcast is a helpful resource to you, please consider subscribing, leaving a review and sharing it with others.

Did that get your attention? No, this episode isn’t an anti-easter manifesto. It’s a roundtable discussion on the highs and lows, pros and cons and practical approaches to the ministry calendar–specifically the big holidays and ministry events. Let’s talk about the pain points that come along with these, and how we can experience fruitfulness in events without hating it.

Resources Highlighted in this Interview: 

• Gloo Text Message Resource
• Connect w/ Billy at http://innovationchurch.cc

Guest Bio:

Billy Holden has has served in ministry leadership for 20 years. Billy and his wife Mandy planted Innovation Church in Lafayette, IN in 2010. They have a total of 5 kids, 2 (twins) of which they adopted out of foster care. They have a huge heart for their community and serve local foster families through fostering, hosting foster agencies and through a foster closet ministry!

Episode Credits: 

Audio Engineer & Editing by AJ Williams

Produced by Chad Garrison

Episode Artwork Photo by Hassan yahia on Pexels

Connect With Ministry w/o Hating It:
Our LinkTree | Support MWH @ Buy Me A Coffee
Thanks for listening! If this podcast is a helpful resource to you, please consider subscribing, leaving a review and sharing it with others.

Have you ever said, “I am going to make this work, or die trying”? According to Pastors Sal & Krystal Bono, that’s probably the worst thing you can say within ministry. In this episode, the Bonos get candid about the pain from messy transitions, the death of a ministry dream and even being houseless for a season. But through all of these humbling experiences, Sal & Krystal also share the hope they have found to keep going by realizing, “there’s grace for that.” 

Also, the episode’s final score is Sal 1 - Krystal 1000.

Resources Highlighted in this Interview: 

• To connect further with Sal & Krystal at gracechrch.com

Guest Bio:

Sal and Krystal Bono have been married for 22 years and have four daughters. They live in Federal Way, WA where they serve together as Co-Lead Pastors at Grace Church. With over 20 years in ministry together, Sal and Krystal have faithfully served the Church in a variety of roles—including church planters, urban missionaries, creative pastors, worship leaders, discipleship directors, and youth pastors. Their passion for the local church is matched by a heart for creative entrepreneurship, using innovative tools and storytelling to build up people and communities for the glory of God.

Episode Credits: 

Audio Engineer & Editing by AJ Williams

Produced by Chad Garrison

Connect With Ministry w/o Hating It:
Our LinkTree | Support MWH @ Buy Me A Coffee
Thanks for listening! If this podcast is a helpful resource to you, please consider subscribing, leaving a review and sharing it with others.

If God chooses the foolish things to shame the wise, then what does that say about me? According to Pastor Jordan Wall, it’s actually pretty simple. In this episode Jordan shares how his story formed a simple approach to his ministry, regardless of the assignment, and how that shifts the fluctuations of ministry from targets to dashboards. Simple. 

Resources Highlighted in this Interview: 

• Connect further with Jordan at revitalizechurch.life

Guest Bio:

Jordan Wall is a husband and father of four, with over 20 years of experience in full-time ministry. Throughout his journey, he has served in a variety of roles—including NextGen, Operations, and Worship Pastor—before planting Revitalize Church in Kalamazoo, MI, where he now serves as Senior Pastor. Jordan is passionate about seeing lives transformed through the local church. When he's not preaching or leading, you’ll likely find him enjoying his favorite foods—fried chicken, tacos, and pizza (with salads in between)—or dreaming about one day traveling to space.

Episode Credits: 

Audio Engineer & Editing by AJ Williams

Produced by Chad Garrison

Connect With Ministry w/o Hating It:
Our LinkTree | Support MWH @ Buy Me A Coffee
Thanks for listening! If this podcast is a helpful resource to you, please consider subscribing, leaving a review and sharing it with others.

Statistically, the number of ministry leaders struggling with their identity, calling and confidence in ministry is growing, and they are feeling more and more isolated. In this episode, Pastor and Executive Director Johnny McCallister unpacks how ministry leaders need each other more than ever before. Johnny shares keys for resiliency learned from over 30 years of ministry, tools for ministering to others, and what it looks like to allow yourself to be ministered to as well.

We also discover that Johnny & Chad have the same sandwich order, which of course means they’re now best friends–Enjoy this one!

Resources Highlighted in this Interview: 

• The Resilient Pastor: Leading Your Church in a Rapidly Changing World by Glenn Packiam
• Barna: The State of Pastors Summit
• Connect further with Johnny via Pastors in Prayer Website

Guest Bio:

Johnny Mac is the Executive Director of Pastors in Prayer. Pastors in Prayer is a transformative non-profit ministry dedicated to engaging, encouraging, and equipping pastors from various denominations to thrive in their ministry.  Leveraging Johnny's 34 years of experience and wisdom in pastoral leadership, Pastors in Prayer aims to provide valuable resources, support, and mentorship to pastors of all ages. Pastors in Prayer seeks to add value to pastors' lives and ministries, ultimately impacting the Kingdom of God.

Johnny McCallister is the former senior pastor at the First Church of God, where he served for over 13 years. Before that, Johnny served as an Associate Pastor for 18 years, focusing on Student Ministry in his home state of WV and in Fort Wayne.  Johnny has been married to Sherrie McCallister for 36 years.  Over the years, Sherrie has been instrumental in partnering in many aspects of ministry experience. They have four children: Victoria, the Director of Development at YMCA of Greater Fort Wayne.  Brianna works as a Kindergarten Teacher in the Fort Wayne School District; Silas is a senior at Indiana University Kelly School of Business; and Beckett is a sophomore at Carroll High School.

Episode Credits: 

Audio Engineer & Editing by AJ Williams

Produced by Chad Garrison

Connect With Ministry w/o Hating It:
Our LinkTree | Support MWH @ Buy Me A Coffee
Thanks for listening! If this podcast is a helpful resource to you, please consider subscribing, leaving a review and sharing it with others.

How does knowing who you’ve been created to be as a leader directly impact your effectiveness in discipling others? Pastor and denominational leader, Beth Hackbarth, sits down for a conversation with us to share how her own journey of self-discovery opened up a new level for her in leading others. In this episode, we also talk about what the long game of developing people and leaders in our care looks like, and the impacts of being less loosy-goosy and more strategic in our approach to disciple formation. 

We may have also created a spin-off podcast for Brenton & Beth about homesteading. Time will tell–check this one out! 

Resources Highlighted in this Interview: 

• To connect further with Beth at, the Foursquare Central District, her FB page or at [email protected]
• Foursquare “Discover” Resources
• Younique - Personal Calling Training

Guest Bio:

Beth Hackbarth is passionate about trailblazing the capacity of people and organizations by pioneering pathways for optimum impact. 

With over two decades of experience in ministry, Beth has worn many hats, including Co-Lead Pastor, Worship Pastor, Youth Pastor, Leadership Development Director, Communications and Creative Arts Director, and most recently, as Associate Supervisor for the Central District of Foursquare Churches. In this role, she provides oversight, development, and care to 1,200 pastors across 275 churches in a 17-state region.

Beth holds a bachelor’s degree from Life Pacific University and will be graduating with her master’s degree in Leadership and Culture from George Fox University (Portland Seminary) in May 2025.

For 18 years, Beth has been married to her best friend and ministry partner, Ben. Together, they are raising three children—Analeigh (15), Malachi (13), and Judah (11)—on a homestead in northeastern Colorado. Outside of their busy ministry life, they love fishing, hunting, hiking, backpacking, and spending long summer days at the lake.

Episode Credits: 

Audio Engineer & Editing by AJ Williams

Produced by Chad Garrison

Connect With Ministry w/o Hating It:
Our LinkTree | Support MWH @ Buy Me A Coffee
Thanks for listening! If this podcast is a helpful resource to you, please consider subscribing, leaving a review and sharing it with others.

Is it your “ministry”, or your “mission assignment”? Distinguishing this small, yet profound detail has made all the difference for our guest, Pastor Peter Henderson. In this episode, Peter shares how being a survivor of the Columbine thrust him into Pastoral Ministry as a teen–leading him to become a Senior Pastor in his 20’s, the wisdom gained from being a young leader in a healthy transition, and how his passion for being on mission together with Jesus creates a culture of integrated missiology. 

Also, Peter doesn’t like to be poked, and many apologies are made. So give it a listen!

Resources Highlighted in this Interview: 

• Perspectives USA Course
• Emergenetics International
• To connect further with Peter at livingwayfellowship.org

Guest Bio:

Peter Henderson has been the senior pastor at Living Way Fellowship in Highlands Ranch, Colorado since January 2010 and is currently the Foursquare Central District Mission Mobilizer.  Peter and his wife, Jill, have been married since 2014 and have two beautiful young daughters, Bonnie and Brigitte.

Peter completed his BA in Biblical Studies and MA in Strategic Leadership at Life Pacific University. He has served as a board member for several mission agencies, including OMF, an organization serving East Asia’s peoples, and GlobalCall, a leadership and community outreach ministry in Ethiopia. He’s passionate about collaborative leadership, disciple-making movements and reaching Unreached People Groups.

Episode Credits: 

Audio Engineer & Editing by AJ Williams

Produced by Chad Garrison

Connect With Ministry w/o Hating It:
Our LinkTree | Support MWH @ Buy Me A Coffee
Thanks for listening! If this podcast is a helpful resource to you, please consider subscribing, leaving a review and sharing it with others.

We’re back! And for our first episode of Season Four we’re visited by Pastor and Non-Profit Leader, Jared Ballenger. In this conversation Jared shares why the word “ministry” has always been spelled “w-o-r-k” (and how that’s not a negative thing), finding freedom on the other side of burnout and the incredible work of rescuing children from human trafficking that he gets to be a part of with Destiny Rescue. It’s a chill interview, so sit down with us!

Resources Highlighted in this Interview: 

• Destiny Rescue Website
• To connect further with Jared: [email protected] / Instagram: @jaredballenger / Facebook: www.facebook.com/jarednballenger

Guest Bio:
Jared Ballenger, a devoted husband to Lauren and father to Liam and Rigley, is a passionate advocate for justice from Fort Wayne, IN. As the Director of Church Engagement for Destiny Rescue, he empowers churches to take action against human trafficking by connecting them with opportunities to bring freedom to vulnerable children. During visits to Destiny Rescue’s projects in Africa, Jared witnessed the transformative power of rescue firsthand, participating in operations that brought life-changing freedom to exploited children. Also as a licensed Foursquare pastor, Jared dreams of planting a church with his wife one day, where they can continue to serve people and spread hope.

Episode Credits: 
Audio Engineer & Editing by AJ Williams
Produced by Chad Garrison

Connect With Ministry w/o Hating It:
Our LinkTree | Support MWH @ Buy Me A Coffee
Thanks for listening! If this podcast is a helpful resource to you, please consider subscribing, leaving a review and sharing it with others.

At its core, experiencing pain simply means that something is off. And oftentimes, we think pain is bad. And sometimes it is. And sometimes it can be really useful. In our Season 3 Finale, therapist and pastor, BrianJames McMahon, unpacks for us how being honest and lamenting his own pain changed everything for him–including stepping out of vocational ministry. It’s possible to not fear pain, wrestle with lament, and bravely face the possibility of leaving a ministry, with hope–and without hating it.

Resources Highlighted in this Interview: 

• Church Well Co Website
• BrianJames Therapy Website
• Connect further with Brian James at Instagram: @brianjamesmcmahon @church_well_co

Guest Bio:
BrianJames McMahon is a pastor, counselor, and founder of both Church Well Co, and BrianJames Therapy. He works with pastors, churches, and communities to develop safe(r) relational and emotional spaces for healing and connection.

BrianJames cares deeply that the Church of Jesus embodies the person of Jesus with beauty, bravery, and connection.Never one to shy away from messiness and pain, he has committed his life to helping leaders honestly face the pain present in their lives and callings and to walk into the fullness of the life Jesus has for them in honesty, openness, and bravery.

Episode Credits:
Audio Engineer & Editing by AJ Williams
Produced by Chad Garrison

Connect With Ministry w/o Hating It:
Our LinkTree | Support MWH @ Buy Me A Coffee
Thanks for listening! If this podcast is a helpful resource to you, please consider subscribing, leaving a review and sharing it with others.