Welcome to (the audio of) season 2, episode 4 of Modern Money Doughnuts (MMD), hosted by Steven Hail and Gabrielle Bond. MMD is an international show about modern monetary theory and ecological economics. This week, Steven and Gabie talk to Phil Lawn, who will talk about his educational work relating to Ecological Economics, Sustainable Development and Real-World Economics. He is a pioneer of the Genuine Progress Indicator (GPI) as an indicator of social well-being, and one of Australia's leading ecological and MMT economists. Here's a link to the full (audio-only) episode: https://activistmmt.libsyn.com/modern-money-doughnuts-seas2-ep4-phil-lawn Here's the original video from which the audio comes. (The above audio is unedited): https://youtu.be/eBIovH61bq8 All episodes of Modern Money Donuts can be found on this page by Modern Money Labs: https://modernmoneylab.org.au/events/podcast/ MMD is hosted by Kerberos Media, and the audio podcast is, for now, hosted by Activist #MMT. So if you'd like to be automatically notified of each new MMD episode, then subscribe to Activist #MMT on your favorite podcast platform. With thanks to Jimi Sunderland for the production assistance.