Why Senate leaders are crafting the most important legislation of the Trump presidency in secret. Guest: Carl Hulse, who covers Congress. For more information on today’s episode, visit http://nyti.ms/2rIs7dC.

Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. You can also subscribe via your favorite podcast app here https://www.nytimes.com/activate-access/audio?source=podcatcher. For more podcasts and narrated articles, download The New York Times app at nytimes.com/app.