Denise Mylonakis and Philippe Beaudry discuss the national embarrassment that is the Pheonix Pay system. Riddled with problems from the start and spanning over 2 political parties, Denise and Phil identify who's to blame. Is it IBM for its bogus software, Harper for cutting costs or Trudeau for not fixing the problem. What is PeopleSoft? Why Miramichi, New Brunswick? They also segway the conversation into Murphy's Law and De Morgan's Law at the end...