Bruce Schneier joins me on this episode of the TechSpective Podcast to talk about hacking, power, and why so much of what gets blamed on AI might actually be something else.

Schneier is one of the most well-known and respected names in cybersecurity. He has been working in and writing about cybersecurity since the term was invented, writing more than a dozen books in that time. Data and Goliath looked at surveillance. A Hacker's Mind looked at loopholes in the rules we all live by. His most recent book turns that same thinking toward AI and democracy.

A Hacker's Way of Seeing the World

Schneier's idea of a “hack” is not limited to computers. I have read a number of his books, and I am always fascinated by how he is able to frame cybersecurity concepts and illustrate how they appear everywhere in the world around us. They are more philosophy or psychology books than cybersecurity, really.

To him, a hack is any gap between what the rules say and what they were meant to do. Some of his best examples have nothing to do with the internet at all — they come from professional sports, the tax code, even ancient Rome. In each case, someone found a gap that the rules never closed.

That same lens applies to Washington. Rules get written for one purpose, and someone always finds a way to use them for another. We spend a good chunk of the episode on how that plays out in the US government.

Most AI Problems Are Really Capitalism Problems

Schneier argues that a lot of what people are angry about with AI right now is not really about the technology. It is about who controls it and what they choose to do with it.

“A lot of people's problems with AI are actually not AI problems,” Schneier told me. “They're capitalism problems.”

We talk through what that looks like in a few different fields. The same tool can concentrate power in fewer hands. Or it can spread that power out. Which way it goes depends on who is using it, not on the tool itself.

We also talk about the fact that AI does not create new problems so much as it amplifies the ones that already exist. Schneier gives a few examples of how that shows up in law, in medicine, and in everyday life. He points to how the same technology can push power in opposite directions depending on who holds it.

A Lot More Ground to Cover

Schneier and I also get into his new book, Rewiring Democracy, co-authored with Nathan Sanders. We talk about what it has been like to watch the political ground shift under a book about strengthening democratic institutions. We also cover election security, security theater in the age of deepfakes, and where Schneier thinks the value of human writing is headed next.

Watch the full episode to hear how it all connects.