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Dance movement psychotherapist Gwen Williams joins me (trauma therapist, AuDHDer, senior accredited supervisor, coach, author and columnist etc, Eve) to discuss how she combines yoga therapy, dance, art, and psychotherapy to help people reconnect with their bodies and heal.

Gwen shares her journey from yoga therapy training (while pregnant!) to completing her MA in dance movement psychotherapy, plus her exhibition “Reclaiming the Wild Body.” She offers practical insights on movement practices for ADHD and neurodivergent brains, explaining why gentle, slow practices work best when your mind moves at a million miles an hour.

Perfect for anyone interested in somatic healing, trauma recovery, creative therapy, or finding movement practices that actually work for neurodivergent nervous systems.

Find Gwen: Website: gwen-williams.com Instagram: @movement_art_therapy

Topics covered: ADHD, dance movement psychotherapy, yoga therapy, somatic practices, neurodiversity, creative healing, embodiment

le grá (with love),

Eve

Chapters

(0:00) Introduction to Gwen Williams

(0:53) Reconnecting after yoga therapy training 14 years ago

(2:09) Gwen’s evolving body-based and creative work

(3:57) Reclaiming the Wild Body exhibition

(5:12) Neurodiversity, ADHD and creative practice

(7:14) Where to find Gwen online

(7:48) Exploring Eve’s Feel. Love. Heal. framework

(9:22) Gwen’s essential Feel self-care

(11:05) Ideal and essential Love Self care

(14:49) Designing life around slower somatic practice

(16:22) Heal collective care: community, dance and co-regulation

(18:03) Reclaiming the Wild Body workshops

(19:20) Earth body, social body and transpersonal body

(21:02) Vegan chat and episode planning

(22:57) Where to find Gwen (recap)

(23:23) Closing credits and resources

FULL TRANSCRIPT

Welcome to episode 87 of the Feel Better Every Day Podcast. Today’s guest is the delightful Gwen Williams. We trained together as yoga therapists for mental health and it was so lovely to catch up with her for this episode and reconnect.

She’s since become a psychotherapist and she is combining art and her psychotherapy and yoga and movement and just all around delightfulness. If you’re in Bristol check her out and online obviously also you can gain a lot from her amazing presence in the world. I hope you enjoy the episode and let me know how you get on.

Welcome Gwen, thank you so much for joining me. Thank you for having me Eve, it’s really nice to be here. It’s so funny because I met you like we used to sit together a lot in the yoga therapy training we did with the Minded Institute and you were pregnant at the time and you like I couldn’t believe that I was struggling because it was a lot.

It was amazing but it was a lot and there you were and now finding out how old your son your first son is it’s like wow like you say it’s a huge mark of time but yeah it’s gorgeous seeing what you’ve been doing with the work and how it’s evolved for you and it looks so beautiful in the video. Do you want to say a little bit more about how it has evolved for you, where people can find you?

Yeah thank you, yeah so it’s lovely to reconnect with you and yeah it was it was about it was like 13 or 14 years ago that we were doing that training together. So yeah so that training in yoga therapy with the Minded Institute, yeah so I suppose that’s been part of an ongoing process for me of exploring, training, sharing different body and movement based work.

So after that I did some training in Focusing so we’re kind of bodied, lovely, gorgeous, embodied, practised and in women’s health and then in dance I trained as a dance movement psychotherapist so I did an MA in that which I completed about a year and a bit ago.

Congratulations.

Yeah thank you and that was a very big big chunky training to do so all these things I kind of bring together now in a way of working with people that’s very much focused on the body, focused on movement, focused on the somatic experience of our body, of what’s happening for us in movement and in response to our lives and our emotions and what’s going on in the world.

And I also have been yeah reclaiming my own creative practice because my background years ago was in fine arts and then in cultural and media studies so lots of the work I’ve been doing that was part of my MA and then going forward has been working with creative practice through I suppose what you could broadly call performance art or movement and film based work.

And you had an exhibition? I had an exhibition yes I had so I had an exhibition in January in central Bristol in an amazing gallery called Centre Space Gallery which is a gorgeous place and that was an exhibition that showcased this body of art space research that I’d done I’d been exploring for probably about seven years in different forms and then it became the focus of my final year of my master’s in dance movement psychotherapy where I got to do this piece of art space research which was called Reclaiming the Wild Body and that was heuristic.

It was sort of very much my exploration my own process in this and then I felt like OK I’ve got to bring this work out into a public space so had this exhibition which was an amazing experience and then as part of that had a movement lab with an amazing multi-instrumentalist so we brought other people in I brought other people into it and we explored and now that’s become a piece of workshops that’s happening right now.

Multi-talented, multi-passionate and it’s obvious that you’re waiting for an ADHD diagnosis like kind of with hindsight with what we know.

Yeah yeah yeah so as I was mentioning I’ve been on the waiting list for about four years for an ADHD diagnosis pretty sure I fit that model and often have multiple threads in different things going on that sort of all link together but often doing lots of things at once yeah yeah some diversity in the picture.

And I think that I know for me understanding oh it’s a differently wired brain it really has helped and continues to help me honour that more rather than oh I shouldn’t be or I should be or all of that.

Yeah absolutely yeah I think my own process with understanding neurodiversity and knowing I’ve been dyslexic my whole life and going and doing well actually when I did my degree it felt like quite a big deal when I did my Master’s it felt like quite a big deal and yeah shake off some ideas I had about what I was good at. And I actually did really well, amazingly, in my in the writing aspect which was a surprise because sometimes I’m like a thousand million ideas and I want to get all in and it can end up feeling a bit chaotic but wonderful.

Yeah it’s been really helpful to kind of understand a bit more about ADHD and be like, OK this is just how I this is kind of the way my brain works and there’s not something wrong with me. No what it is what I do but I think that’s what I think is really helpful in this growing interest in neurodiversity and I ADHD brain I’m not sure if you mentioned your website or website or Instagram I did yeah so my website is gwen-williams.com so you can find on there about my work that I do with groups one-to-ones and a little bit about my creative work and then my Instagram is at movement_art_therapy

Wonderful yeah and we were talking a bit about how I’ll be asking about your ideal and actual self-care so I work with the Feel. Love. Heal. framework I developed and the Feel bit is the more regulatory lowercase self-care the Love is the the uppercase s Self-care like connecting with your miraculous highest wisest wildest truest self and remembering that we’re all part of the divine remembering that we’re already whole no matter what we’ve survived whatever challenges we’re facing and then the Heal bit is the collective self-care the co-regulation.

It might be spaces you hold for others but also very much how you allow yourself to be held and to heal. If I start with the feel what would stand out as an ideal self-care and the essential for you?

I love this model. Great. It’s really nice breaking it down into these three parts so I’d say the kind of Feel yeah so the so the kind of yeah as we were saying sort of the I don’t want to call them basic self-care because they can be challenging and different circumstances but for me I guess I’m sort of eating relatively healthy food whilst also not denying myself any particular foods. But healthy foods fairly regularly. Getting hopefully just about enough sleep and having time I’ve got a little pooch who’s just sat here on the sofa next to me so walking out I’m very lucky to live in a city but one where there’s lots of nature around and woods and fields and a river. So being outside for a good part of the day and also just having time with my boys who are now teenage and tween age and maybe even sneaking in some cuddles with them in front of a good tv series we’re all watching and having some walks and time with my family.

Wonderful yeah they make a lot of self-care wonderful and I’m remembering when I stayed on your houseboat when you were on the river and waking up and seeing swans glide past the bedroom it’s like oh my god that’s incredible but yeah that’s gorgeous.

What would you say, and I always feel a bit evil asking this question but if you could only pick one thing what would be your essential self-care in that category?

I suppose I’d have to go for the snuggles and they’re like family time.

I love it I love it and moving to the Love part, so with the Feel part it’s very much when we have the bandwidth to do the things that will help us regulate. With the Love part that can often be harder because we are all part of the Divine and we forget, through trauma histories, through neurodivergence, and being told we’re wrong our entire childhoods and growing up. But when you like if you were to think about that highest wisest truest part of yourself like that acceptance that knowing that you don’t need to do a thing to improve. You’re already whole and everything. What would be your ideal and essential I realise I sound like I’m contradicting myself but there are things we can do to help us be in that mode more and does that make sense?

Yeah, totally and I guess I was thinking as you were saying that that we also exist in a society in our Western society that also doesn’t support this it doesn’t us are remembering that we are whole we are perfect we are part of divine love we are all enough as we are. And to me the remembering I really need to remember and my practice is really about remembering that and the way that I do that is really through the body and through my movement practice. So my ideal is that I get up at six in the morning and I go to my mat and I light a candle and I do some sitting meditation and I do some moving meditation combination of movement and yoga and I’m going to be honest that these days that doesn’t happen so much because I also you know end up going to bed a little bit too late and want to sleep in the morning. Yeah I do find it’s pretty much a necessity for me to do some morning movement practice ideally each day or as many days as I can manage in a week and it’s through my movement practice that it’s like it settles my nervous system.

It settles me back into my body back into myself and it’s through that that I access those things you mentioned wonderful so what one thing would be it’s my own movement practice at home on the mat.

Yeah did I just totally ADHD and ask you the exact same thing again?

Well I don’t know or maybe I did the ADHD thing and sort of went all over the place probably with it. Yeah my ideal is getting up and doing it in the morning but my like if that’s which a lot of the time it does and my kind of one thing is at some point at least a few times in the week.

Yeah I was thinking when you were saying about, so my brain did kind of go like the 6am as ideal: Is that because you’d like it to be or because you think it should be or because…?

And yeah I think it’s because it’s easier when I do do it. Yeah, less distracted by like oh maybe I need to do those emails or maybe I need to do that thing or I just need to wash up the breakfast things or need to be somewhere at a certain time.

So it makes it easier when first thing I do is my practice. Yeah that just doesn’t happen you’ve got two children like you’ve got so often it’s like they go to school and then I do a bit of practice and then I get on with my day.

And have you been able to design your day around it or like are you able to?

I do design my day around it and because it feels quite essential. Yeah I think you know talking about neurodiversity, a movement practice which is very soft, it’s very gentle is because my brain goes at a million miles an hour. So doing a movement practice that is very dynamic or pushes me and fast pace it’s like my brain is already doing that so I can just slow.

Gentle practice yeah actually it’s pretty essential for me to stay well and to stay regulated.

Yeah, I love it and moving to the Heal part you’ve already mentioned snuggles. That’s part of the kind of co-regulation the collective care and like kind of potential post-traumatic growth it’s the you are doing so much in your community I just love seeing your posts and hearing about it.

And do you want to say more about in an ideal world what you would offer and accept in terms of the Heal part? And also the bare essentials?

Yeah, so I suppose maybe I’ll start with the bare essentials so yeah there’s kind of the collective in my family that connection and then for me I dance in in shared spaces in Five Rhythms class and somatic dance classes. Having that once a week feels pretty essential for me. And that’s going as a participant, being held in that space, being part of this amazing community that really really lucky to have access to.

That does feel like kind of an essential and then it’s great if I can get it up to a couple of times a week. Oh you can probably see a little bit here and then also what I offer so I’m currently offering a somatic yoga and mindful movement group and that again it’s like sharing my practice. It’s a little bit of still meditation and a little bit of moving meditation and the reason I offer that is because that’s like my anchor.

Yeah, I benefit from offering those classes I’m also participating. We create the presence and the focus together. That’s one of the things that I’m offering and is part of my kind of ideal. And then I’m also offering this series of workshops called Reclaiming the Wild Body which explores this work for arts-based research and the work that came into the exhibition and now the series of workshops.

Yeah I just love it. Reclaiming the Wild Body. There’s so much power in that like oh my god just and like the world as well the earth the connection with nature the healing all of it.

Yeah yeah thinking about that collective like you said part of that work is exploring our bodies not as separate from nature not but as nature. We are nature. We are part of this bigger system and microcosms in the macro and it’s been a process of exploring what happens to my body when I’m in the landscape and in the environment. And when I really submerge myself in that, what happens to my nervous system, my body, my movement, my breath, my internal experience, my internal landscape.

And the flip side of that so I kind of it’s again it’s like a three-part model in a way so I call that the Earth Body and then kind of from exploring that I then explored the kind of opposite of that I suppose or another aspect which is the Social Body the body that’s exists within a society history and has a tradition part of that history and tradition is to separate humans from nature humans over nature humans as not all one but as separate individuals individualism and capitalism and so there’s all these stories that we’re all assisting in stories about many kind of aspects of our visible bodies that come from a historical position so also part of that and that can feel a little bit more kind of edgy or a little bit more there can be some discomfort in some of those things yeah also and then the last part of that model is the Transpersonal Body or the body that is part of this bigger system that other bodies humans animals plants beings reconnecting with us.

I love it. Oh yeah are you vegan?

I’m not vegan actually I’ve been vegetarian most of my life and now I’m a bit flexitarian.

No I was just trying to remember when you were saying that I remember when I did the training I wasn’t but a lot of you were going out for these very healthy I am now but I could use much more whole food and less of the ultra processed deliciousness but no I hope you don’t mind me asking.

No no I’m a bit like probably many of my meals are vegan I don’t have very much that’s not vegan but I do have a bit. My son is actually vegan. He’s all in with it a bit of accommodating that.

I’m only thinking it’s in terms of I want to get this out as soon as possible and I’ve promised that next week it’s going to be for World Vegan Month and I thought oh if you’re then I will change! And but no anyway I will do what I promised at the end of the last episode for next week but that model just sounds beautiful.

It’s amazing, gorgeous talking to you. You’re going to stay with me for the Circle and I’m going to ask you a bit more about the fast brain and slower yoga and how you work that because I’ve very much found that myself and someone recently said to me I was in a like warm yin class and he said I had a “yin vibe” and I was like oh that’s so sweet it’s so not true. I have to work so hard it’s utter torture but nearly 50 I can manage it and benefit from it. In my 20s in London it was pure torture and so I’d love to go into a little bit more around that for the Circle.

So thank you. Do you want to say again where people can find you?

Yes so you can find me I have a website gwen-williams.com you can also find me on Instagram which is at movement_art_therapy and I have to think as I say that because my dyslexic brain just muddles those three words up into different orders but yeah movement_art_therapy

Wonderful. Thanks a million.

Pleasure.

Thank you for listening or watching the Feel Better Every Day Podcast. This episode like all of them was produced by me your host Eve Menezes Cunningham you can find full transcripts links and more information in the show notes and also at selfcarecoaching.net as well as more information about the book 365 Ways to Feel Better: Self-care Ideas for Embodied Wellbeing and if you’re interested in those deeper dives joining the Sole to Soul Circle as well as lots of other free resources and information about other offerings.

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