Music by Thomas Amedeo

Varun and Carlos Dengler discuss college, Carlos’s reading at the MRB3 launch, why Freddie deBoer loves the ‘90s, accidental transhumanism, Carlos’s review of Kelefa Sanneh’s Major Labels in MRB1, Last Ape Standing, MRB and associated communities as a respite from social media, how artists “widen the aperture,” I and Thou, why we need more clubs, why Carlos doesn’t believe in bad art, his fears after leaving the music industry, The Artist’s Way, learning from trees, slyly embedding a suggestion for Noah within the conversation, the devil (Carlos’s dog), how to recognize your calling, Carlos’s ideological migration, Bill Clinton’s autobiography, plagiarizing Varun in real time, learning from a voluntary loss of status.

Because Carlos was involved, the audio is good this time. We hope you enjoy.

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