So far we've talked to campaigners, economists and business people about how we tackle the climate crisis in a post-pandemic world.

This week we've got something a little bit different for you. James catches up with the legendary producer Brian Eno and talks to him about the role art can play in helping us understand and tackle climate change.

Brian also shares some fascinating ideas about how different models and structures for making music can teach us how to better organise society and politics. This is one not to be missed.

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