In this episode of the TKN Leadership Podcast, Rev. Dr. Nicole Martin—COO of Christianity Today and author of Nailing It: Why Successful Leadership Demands Surrender and Suffering—joins Dr. Daryl Williams for a deep, unfiltered conversation about leadership, calling, and the cost of following Christ. Together, they explore the pitfalls of triumphalism in modern ministry, the role of power in leadership, and how to discern God's call in seasons of transition. Whether you're leading in church, business, or life, this episode offers timely wisdom and a refreshing reminder: resurrection follows the cross.