We are so psyched to speak with Kishshana Palmer, CEO of Kishshana & Co. and Chief Growth Officer of The Future Project. She and Helen Choi talk about the pay gap, the leadership gap, women of color and the advancement challenges they face, and the recent race to lead study. In this interview we go deep into what it feels like to be a person of color in the nonprofit sector, trying to make your way. And seeing the unconscious privilege people from the dominant culture have. If you listen, you’ll find some ways to help stop unconscious bias in your organization and make things more equitable and just for everyone. We reference some aspects of white supremacy culture in the interview- including: perfectionism, defensiveness, sense of urgency, paternalism, power hoarding, fear of open conflict, and right to comfort. “People who shut their eyes to reality simply invite their own destruction, and anyone who insists on remaining in a state of innocence long after that innocence is dead turns himself into a monster.” –James Baldwin More Resources: The study we reference in the interview: racetolead.org DIY anti-oppression work FTW! Check out Me and White Supremacy– this workbook! Blackness is the Fulcrum It’s Not Just Ralph Northam—Anti-Blackness is ‘Vintage Americana’ Gather Your People: White Women Must Hold Each Other Accountable for Racism Seeing White (Podcast) Healing from Internalized Whiteness Free Webinar on Everyday Feminism What is White Supremacy Culture? Dismantling Racism: White Supremacy Culture White Supremacy Culture From Dismantling Racism: A Workbook for Social Change Groups, by Kenneth Jones and Tema Okun, ChangeWork, 2001 This is a list of characteristics of white supremacy culture which show up in our organizations. Culture is powerful precisely because it is so present and at the same time so very difficult to name or identify. The characteristics listed below are damaging because they are used as norms and standards without being pro-actively named or chosen by the group. They are damaging because they promote white supremacy thinking. They are damaging to both people of color and to white people. Organizations that are people of color led or a majority people of color can also demonstrate many damaging characteristics of white supremacy culture. Perfectionism little appreciation expressed among people for the work that others are doing; appreciation that is expressed usually directed to those who get most of the credit anyway more common is to point out either how the person or work is inadequate or even more common, to talk to others about the inadequacies of a person or their work without ever talking directly to them mistakes are seen as personal, i.e. they reflect badly on the person making them as opposed to being seen for what they are ó mistakes making a mistake is confused with being a mistake, doing wrong with being wrong little time, energy, or money put into reflection or identifying lessons learned that can improve practice, in other words little or no learning from mistakes tendency to identify whatís wrong; little ability to identify, name, and appreciate whatís right antidotes: develop a culture of appreciation, where the organization takes time to make sure that peopleís work and efforts are appreciated; develop a learning organization, where it is expected that everyone will make mistakes and those mistakes offer opportunities for learning; create an environment where people can recognize that mistakes sometimes lead to positive results; separate the person from the mistake; when offering feedback, always speak to the things that went well before offering criticism; ask people to offer specific suggestions for how to do things differently when offering criticism Sense of Urgency continued sense of urgency that makes it difficult to take time to be inclusive, encourage democratic and/or thoughtful decision-making, to think long-term, to consider cons