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What if your spiritual life had a map you could actually see and use? We sit down with bestselling author Lori Beth Jones to explore the “21 holds of spiritual ascent,” a vivid framework that turns vague struggle into clear, actionable steps. Instead of abstract advice, Lori gives us memorable visuals: the social hold as a carousel that looks like motion but goes nowhere, the cargo hold as overstuffed schedules and judgments, the withhold as a famine of your own voice, and the chokehold that steals breath and agency.

From there we cross the threshold—the first crack of light under a door—into upward movement. We talk about the tiny toehold that changes direction, the throwhold that requires trust, the sold hold that commits you to what’s next, and the bold hold that asks you to reach for the moving train. Lori expands on the gold hold, where values realign toward what lasts, and on the stronghold, wold hold, and behold—the places of support, clearing, and awe where you finally see you’ve been held all along. We connect these ideas to breath, voice, and the courage to take up space, especially for women taught to fold, shrink, or leave the table. Staying at the table becomes a practice of freedom.

You’ll also hear how this framework becomes a practical game and spiritual practice, including the “wonderful what-if rabbit,” a playful prompt that opens imagination and reveals hidden thresholds. Heather shares a powerful blessing for climbers, and we each name a hold we’re releasing right now—like the cargo hold of an overloaded calendar—to make room for depth and creative work. If you’ve been craving language for where you are and a nudge toward your next step, this conversation offers both clarity and companionship for the climb.

If this resonates, subscribe, share with a friend, and leave a review so more listeners can find the show. Then tell us: what hold are you naming today, and what toehold will you claim next?