When we think of great change leaders we think of those with a bold vision for the future, those who are self-confident and charismatic. But transformational leaders share some similar traits with narcissistic leaders, those who act out of self-admiration, follow their grandiose thoughts and visions, but lack empathy and self-reflection. What are the effects of narcissistic leaders? Why do we see so many narcissistic leaders at the top of our organizations and in politics? How can we protect ourselves when working for a narcissist? We will talk with one of the most prominent researchers on narcissistic leadership, Michael Maccoby, about his new book "Psychoanalytic and historical perspectives on the leadership of Donal Trump" - Trump obviously has become the epitome of narcissistic leadership but Michael has a somewhat different view on Trump and narcissism, as you will see... [music]