In this episode, I’m joined by Dr. Mike Joy, one of New Zealand’s most respected and outspoken freshwater ecologists. A former dairy farm worker turned academic, Mike’s journey into environmental science was driven by what he witnessed firsthand—degrading waterways and the ecological cost of intensive agriculture. He went on to earn a PhD in ecology and freshwater biology and has since become a leading voice on the health of our rivers and lakes.

I speak with Mike about the state of Aotearoa’s freshwater systems and what they reveal about the way we live. We discuss the urgent need to change how we manage land, water, and resources in the face of climate disruption—and how systemic, rather than superficial, change is our best path forward. It’s a conversation about truth, courage, and hope for our environmental future.

Summary

Mike painted a sobering picture of the state of freshwater in Aotearoa—where three-quarters of our native freshwater fish are now threatened or at risk, and even our drinking water poses a risk to human health. The root causes are clear: the relentless intensification of dairy farming and an economic model that rewards pollution while ignoring the true costs of environmental harm.

Mike challenges us to flip the script—asking not how we can afford to change, but how we can afford not to. Prevention is not only better than cure—it’s far cheaper. His message is grounded in both science and common sense: reduce intensity, reduce harm.

More broadly, Mike questions our obsession with perpetual economic growth, reminding us that Gross Domestic Product is one of the most reliable indicators of environmental degradation. At the heart of it, this is a crisis of sustainability—but also a crisis of imagination.

A simpler life, lived within the limits of our energy and resources, can be richer, healthier, and more fulfilling. If we’re brave enough to let go of excess, we might just discover a better way forward.

About the podcast:

Hi! I’m Dr Adam Forbes. I am an Ecologist who specialises in the restoration of forest ecosystems. The Nature Conversations Podcast isn’t about me, however, the purpose of the podcast is to capture knowledge and insights from remarkable people and profile important issues for ecology and nature conversation.

Supporting the podcast and connecting with me:

If you like the content of the podcast, you can support its creation in the following ways:

1 – following, liking, rating and sharing the podcast or episodes with others,

2 – via my Patreon account (you can even support for free) https://patreon.com/DrAdamForbes 

If you’d like to contact me, you can do so via email: [email protected] or via my website https://www.forbesecology.co.nz 

You can also find me on socials:

Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/dradamforbes 

Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/adamforbesnz 

LinkedIn - http://linkedin.com/in/dr-adam-forbes-58873a55

Youtube - https://youtube.com/@dradamforbes?si=FzxXRUqdPd9zxPlE  

Keywords

Dr Mike Joy, New Zealand freshwater crisis, Aotearoa rivers and lakes, intensive dairy farming impact, freshwater ecology New Zealand, climate disruption and water, environmental sustainability podcast, ecological collapse warning, systemic change vs superficial change, pollution and economic growth, GDP and environmental harm, sustainable land and water use, crisis of imagination, rethinking economic growth, climate change and agriculture, natural resource limits, drinking water safety NZ, regenerative environmental thinking, preventing environmental damage, truth about New Zealand’s waterways

In this episode of Nature Conversations, I sit down in person with renowned botanist Dr Hugh Wilson, the driving force behind Hinewai Reserve, a groundbreaking native forest regeneration project in New Zealand. For over 40 years, Hugh has championed a philosophy of minimal intervention, allowing nature to do the heavy lifting in ecological restoration. In our conversation, Hugh shares candid insights into the challenges, successes, and surprises of restoring 1600 hectares of former farmland. From battling bureaucracy to witnessing the return of rare species, Hugh’s story is one of perseverance, inspiration, and a deep trust in nature’s ability to heal itself.

Summary

Hugh has spent decades dedicated to ecological restoration, proving that nature itself is the most powerful force for forest restoration. At Hinewai Reserve, he has embraced a minimal interference approach, using gorse—a plant often considered a pest—as a natural nurse crop to protect young native seedlings. This method has successfully restored over 1600 hectares of native forest without the need for extensive tree planting.

However, Hugh’s journey has not been without challenges. He faced significant resistance from authorities who enforced strict noxious plant regulations, requiring a long battle to prove that gorse was actually aiding regeneration rather than hindering it. Pest control has been another ongoing struggle. While Hinewai has finally eradicated feral goats, the team is now tackling the impact of browsing deer, aiming for their complete removal to protect the young forest. A small handful of exotic weeds have been a concern, but careful management has helped prevent them from overwhelming native species.

Despite these obstacles, the project has been a resounding success. The most rewarding outcome for Hugh has been witnessing the remarkable natural regeneration of native forest cover. Thousands of visitors now explore Hinewai, providing enthusiastic feedback and drawing inspiration from the reserve’s transformation. Scientists and conservationists frequently visit to study the recovering ecosystem, and the return of rare plants and breeding native falcons highlights the project’s ecological significance.

Hugh’s core message is one of encouragement: let nature lead the way. He believes that for every tree humans plant, nature establishes a million more. While challenges like bureaucracy and moments of discouragement are inevitable, he urges others to trust in the resilience of natural systems. Every day at Hinewai brings new highlights, from unexpected plant reappearances to the joy of seeing his workers thrive in a deeply meaningful project. His work stands as a testament to what can be achieved when we step back and allow nature to restore itself.

And a huge thanks to Alison Evans for making this episode possible,  travelling with me to meet Hugh at Hinewai! The bird song featured in the episode is a korimako/bellbird recorded in a māhoe tree while walking down the track to meet Hugh on the day of the interview.

Hope you enjoy this episode!

About the podcast:

Hi! I’m Dr Adam Forbes. I am an Ecologist who specialises in the restoration of forest ecosystems. The Nature Conversations Podcast isn’t about me, however, the purpose of the podcast is to capture knowledge and insights from remarkable people and profile important issues for ecology and nature conversation.

Supporting the podcast and connecting with me:

If you like the content of the podcast, you can support its creation in the following ways:

1 – following, liking, rating and sharing the podcast or episodes with others,

2 – via my Patreon account (you can even support for free) https://patreon.com/DrAdamForbes 

If you’d like to contact me, you can do so via email: [email protected] or via my website https://www.forbesecology.co.nz 

You can also find me on socials:

Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/dradamforbes 

Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/adamforbesnz 

LinkedIn - http://linkedin.com/in/dr-adam-forbes-58873a55

Youtube - https://youtube.com/@dradamforbes?si=FzxXRUqdPd9zxPlE  

In this episode of Nature Conversations, I speak with Associate Professor Tim Curran, a plant ecologist specialising in plant flammability and extreme disturbance events like fire, drought, and cyclones. Tim discusses his work on measuring plant flammability and how plant traits influence fire behaviour, with a focus on identifying low-flammability species to create green firebreaks. These firebreaks not only help reduce wildfire spread but also support biodiversity restoration and ecosystem services. Tim highlights the historical shift in New Zealand's ecology, where fire was once less influential but is now exacerbated by climate change. As wildfires become more frequent, Tim stresses the importance of understanding fire behavior and taking proactive measures to mitigate risks. His work offers critical insights into fire management, plant resilience, and the future of fire science. Tune in for an in-depth conversation about plant ecology, fire risk, and climate change solutions.

Hope you enjoy this episode!

Links mentioned in the podcast:

Fire and Emergency Plant Flammability Database https://www.checkitsalright.nz/reduce-your-risk/low-flammability-plants 

University Profile https://researchers.lincoln.ac.nz/tim.curran

SCION Rural Fire Research https://www.ruralfireresearch.co.nz

About the podcast:

Hi! I’m Dr Adam Forbes. I am an Ecologist who specialises in the restoration of forest ecosystems. The Nature Conversations Podcast isn’t about me, however, the purpose of the podcast is to capture knowledge and insights from remarkable people and profile important issues for ecology and nature conversation.

Supporting the podcast and connecting with me:

If you like the content of the podcast, you can support its creation in the following ways:

1 – following, liking, rating and sharing the podcast or episodes with others,

2 – via my Patreon account (you can even support for free) https://patreon.com/DrAdamForbes 

If you’d like to contact me, you can do so via email: [email protected] or via my website https://www.forbesecology.co.nz 

You can also find me on socials:

Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/dradamforbes 

Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/adamforbesnz 

LinkedIn - http://linkedin.com/in/dr-adam-forbes-58873a55

Youtube - https://youtube.com/@dradamforbes?si=FzxXRUqdPd9zxPlE  

Key words:

plant ecology, flammability, fire behavior, plant traits, wildfire prevention, drought, firebreaks, New Zealand ecology, plant science, climate change, biodiversity restoration, fire risk, fire mitigation, green firebreaks, ecosystem services, Tim Curran, extreme disturbances, fire science, plant response to fire, wildfires, fire prevention, environmental science

In this episode I’m speaking with Amy England who is the Regional Biodiversity Transformation Manager at the Gisborne District Council. Amy has had a career centered on conservation and has been central to the planning and delivery of the Waingake Transformation Programme. Amy is the perfect person to tell us all about this nationally significant restoration project.

Note: I have advised on this project as a professional ecologist.

I hope you enjoy this episode!

Links to Amy's work and the Waingake Transformation Programme:

Transformation Programme website - https://www.gdc.govt.nz/council/major-projects/waingake-restoration

Tane’s Tree Trust - https://www.tanestrees.org.nz 

DOC Jobs for Nature - https://www.jobsfornature.govt.nz 

MPI One Billion Trees - https://www.mpi.govt.nz/forestry/funding-tree-planting-research/one-billion-trees-programme/  

QEII National Trust - https://qeiinationaltrust.org.nz 

One Tree Planted - https://onetreeplanted.org/ 

If you'd like to make contact with Amy please contact the Gisborne District Council - www.gdc.govt.nz

About the podcast:

Hi! I’m Dr Adam Forbes. I am an Ecologist who specialises in the restoration of forest ecosystems. The Nature Conversations Podcast isn’t about me, however, the purpose of the podcast is to capture knowledge and insights from remarkable people and profile important issues for ecology and nature conversation.

Supporting the podcast and connecting with me:

If you like the content of the podcast, you can support its creation in the following ways:

1 – following, liking, rating and sharing the podcast or episodes with others,

2 – via my Patreon account (you can even support for free) https://patreon.com/DrAdamForbes 

If you’d like to contact me, you can do so via email: [email protected] or via my website https://www.forbesecology.co.nz 

You can also find me on socials:

Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/dradamforbes 

Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/adamforbesnz 

LinkedIn - http://linkedin.com/in/dr-adam-forbes-58873a55

Youtube - https://youtube.com/@dradamforbes?si=FzxXRUqdPd9zxPlE  

Dr Colin Miskelly has been keen on natural history all of his life and has progressed through a long career with the NZ Department of Conservation. He is currently the Curator of Vertebrates at The Museum of New Zealand Te Papa Tongarewa. Colin joined me on the podcast to discuss his big adventure - walking the length of New Zealand and counting all the birds he saw or heard from the trail, both day and night!

I hope you enjoy this episode!

Relevant links from the episode:

About the podcast:

Hi! I’m Dr Adam Forbes. I am an Ecologist who specialises in the restoration of forest ecosystems. The Nature Conversations Podcast isn’t about me, however, the purpose of the podcast is to capture knowledge and insights from remarkable people and profile important issues for ecology and nature conversation.

Supporting the podcast and connecting with me:

If you like the content of the podcast, you can support its creation in the following ways:

1 – following, liking, rating and sharing the podcast or episodes with others,

2 – via my Patreon account (you can even support for free)

Patreon

If you’d like to contact me, you can do so via email: [email protected] or via my website Forbes Ecology Ltd

You can also find me on socials:

Facebook - Dr Adam Forbes

Instagram - adamforbesnz

LinkedIn - Dr Adam Forbes

Youtube - Dr Adam Forbes 

In this episode I am joined by Todd Dudley. Todd is the President of the North East Bioregional Network in Tasmania and he has been working as a Bush Regenerator in Australia for 40 years. Todd was a key initiator of the Skyline Tier Restoration Project, which is successfully applying Assisted Natural Regeneration techniques to restore native forest across 2000 ha of radiata pine clear fells in north-eastern Tasmania. Todd was very generous giving his time to speak on the Nature Conversations podcast and who better to discuss landscape-scale restoration in Tasmania with than Todd?! 

I hope you enjoy this episode!

Links to Todds work and the Skyline Tier Restoration Project work:

North East Bioregional Network website – https://www.nebn.org.au

Skyline Tier Restoration Project website – https://www.nebn.org.au/projects/restore-skyline-tier 

Feature Article on the Skyline Tier Restoration Project – https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/emr.12509 

About the podcast:

Hi! I’m Dr Adam Forbes. I am an Ecologist who specialises in the restoration of forest ecosystems. The Nature Conversations Podcast isn’t about me, however, the purpose of the podcast is to capture knowledge and insights from remarkable people and profile important issues for ecology and nature conversation.

Supporting the podcast and connecting with me:

If you like the content of the podcast, you can support its creation in the following ways:

1 – following, liking, rating and sharing the podcast or episodes with others,

2 – via my Patreon account (you can even support for free) https://patreon.com/DrAdamForbes 

If you’d like to contact me, you can do so via email: [email protected] or via my website https://www.forbesecology.co.nz 

You can also find me on socials:

Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/dradamforbes 

Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/adamforbesnz 

LinkedIn - http://linkedin.com/in/dr-adam-forbes-58873a55

Youtube - https://youtube.com/@dradamforbes?si=FzxXRUqdPd9zxPlE  

In this episode I am joined by Dr Kate McAlpine. Kate is a leading Weed Ecologist and is a Science Advisor at the New Zealand Department of Conservation. She has researched weeds and weed ecology comprehensively across New Zealand.

Her publications span the impacts and dispersal of weeds, native seedling recruitment in the presence of weeds and mammals, and native plant succession in woody weed stands. I hope you enjoy this episode.

Links to Kate’s work mentioned in the podcast:

Native regeneration in woody weed stands - https://www.researchgate.net/publication/344324539_Understory_vegetation_provides_clues_to_succession_in_woody_weed_stands

List of Environmental Weeds in New Zealand - 

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/383265349_List_of_environmental_weeds_in_New_Zealand_2024

Karaka paper - (PDF) Karaka (Corynocarpus laevigatus): native taonga (treasure) or environmental weed? (researchgate.net)

Smart Weed Alert Tool (SWAT) - https://www.gbif.org.nz/post/2024/weed-alert-tool/

iNaturalist - https://inaturalist.nz 

You can see more of Kate’s work on her Insta account: @katemcweedatwork

About the podcast:

Hi! I’m Dr Adam Forbes. I am an Ecologist who specialises in the restoration of forest ecosystems. The Nature Conversations Podcast isn’t about me, however, the purpose of the podcast is to capture knowledge and insights from remarkable people and profile important issues for ecology and nature conversation.

Supporting the podcast and connecting with me:

If you like the content of the podcast, you can support its creation in the following ways:

1 – following, liking, rating and sharing the podcast or episodes with others,

2 – via my Patreon account (you can even support for free) https://patreon.com/DrAdamForbes 

If you’d like to contact me, you can do so via email: [email protected] or via my website https://www.forbesecology.co.nz 

You can also find me on socials:

Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/dradamforbes 

Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/adamforbesnz 

LinkedIn - http://linkedin.com/in/dr-adam-forbes-58873a55

Youtube - https://youtube.com/@dradamforbes?si=FzxXRUqdPd9zxPlE  

In this episode I am joined by Dr Shaun Wilkinson. Shaun is a leading expert in eDNA monitoring and the CEO and founder of the DNA sequencing lab, Wilderlab. Shaun explains many aspects of eDNA monitoring and tells me about some exciting applications of this emerging monitoring technique. I hope you enjoy this episode.

You can learn more about Wilderlab via their website: https://www.wilderlab.co.nz  

About the podcast:

Hi! I’m Dr Adam Forbes. I am an Ecologist who specialises in the restoration of forest ecosystems. The Nature Conversations Podcast isn’t about me, however, the purpose of the podcast is to capture knowledge and insights from remarkable people and profile important issues for ecology and nature conversation.

Supporting the podcast and connecting with me:

If you like the content of the podcast, you can support its creation in the following ways:

1 – following, liking, rating and sharing the podcast or episodes with others,

2 – via my Patreon account (you can even support for free) https://patreon.com/DrAdamForbes

If you’d like to contact me, you can do so via email: [email protected] or via my website https://www.forbesecology.co.nz 

You can also find me on socials:

Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/dradamforbes

Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/adamforbesnz

LinkedIn - http://linkedin.com/in/dr-adam-forbes-58873a55

Youtube - https://youtube.com/@dradamforbes?si=FzxXRUqdPd9zxPlE  

In this episode I was fortunate to have Emeritus Professor Robin Chazdon join me for a discussion about her work in Forest Landscape Restoration and Assisted Natural Regeneration.  It is very interesting to contemplate applications of Robin's expertise in Aotearoa New Zealand.

Links mentioned in episode:

Forestation International: https://forestorationinternational.org/

World Resources Institute: https://www.wri.org/?utm_source=google&utm_medium=paid-search-google-grants&utm_campaign=climate-change-ngo&gad_source=1&gclid=EAIaIQobChMImui7ofzFhgMVWlORBR0U3wIeEAAYASAAEgIGpPD_BwE

Assisted Natural Regeneration Alliance: https://www.anralliance.org/

About the podcast:

Hi! I’m Dr Adam Forbes. I am an Ecologist who specialises in the restoration of forest ecosystems. The Nature Conversations Podcast isn’t about me, however, the purpose of the podcast is to capture knowledge and insights from remarkable people and profile important issues for ecology and nature conversation.

Supporting the podcast and connecting with me:

If you like the content of the podcast, you can support its creation in the following ways:

1 – following, liking, rating and sharing the podcast or episodes with others,

2 – via my Patreon account (you can even support for free) https://patreon.com/DrAdamForbes

If you’d like to contact me, you can do so via email: [email protected] or via my website https://www.forbesecology.co.nz 

You can also find me on socials:

Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/dradamforbes

Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/adamforbesnz

LinkedIn - http://linkedin.com/in/dr-adam-forbes-58873a55

Youtube - https://youtube.com/@dradamforbes?si=FzxXRUqdPd9zxPlE  

In this episode Lydia Green, the Founder and Project Director of the Manta Watch New Zealand Charitable Trust, joins me to discuss her work with the Oceanic Manta Ray in the waters of Aotearoa and across the South Pacific Ocean.

Links mentioned during the podcast:

Sightings Map - https://mantawatchnz.org/sightings-map/ 

Data Collection Guide - https://mantawatchnz.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/12/Data-collection-guide-FINAL.pdf

Best Practice Guide - https://mantawatchnz.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/12/Best-practice-guide-for-Manta-Ray-Encounters-FINAL-poster.pdf

About the podcast:

Hi! I’m Dr Adam Forbes. I am an Ecologist who specialises in the restoration of forest ecosystems. The Nature Conversations Podcast isn’t about me, however, the purpose of the podcast is to capture knowledge and insights from remarkable people and profile important issues for ecology and nature conversation.

Supporting the podcast and connecting with me:

If you like the content of the podcast, you can support its creation in the following ways:

1 – following, liking, rating and sharing the podcast or episodes with others,

2 – via my Patreon account (you can even support for free) https://patreon.com/DrAdamForbes

If you’d like to contact me, you can do so via email: [email protected] or via my website https://www.forbesecology.co.nz 

You can also find me on socials:

Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/dradamforbes

Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/adamforbesnz

LinkedIn - http://linkedin.com/in/dr-adam-forbes-58873a55

Youtube - https://youtube.com/@dradamforbes?si=FzxXRUqdPd9zxPlE