Is the liberal international order coming to an end, and what follows the era of American hegemony? In this episode of The World Stage, Senior Research Fellow Wrenn Yennie Lindgren (NUPI) sits down with Manjeet Pardesi, Associate Professor of International Relations at Victoria University of Wellington, to explore the shifting foundations of global politics.

Drawing on his award-winning book, Divergent Worlds, co-authored with Amitav Acharya, Pardesi introduces the concept of a "multiplex world order". Unlike traditional hegemonic or multipolar systems, a multiplex order is defined by its complexity, where non-great powers exercise significant agency and order is shaped by both material power and diverse ideas.

The discussion delves into how history can provide a roadmap for our uncertain future. Pardesi contrasts the ancient Mediterranean, a paradigmatic case of hegemonic order under Rome, with the ancient Indian Ocean, which flourished as a non-hegemonic, pluralistic trading system.

Key highlights of the episode include:

• The Rise of India: An analysis of India’s grand strategy, its "status anxiety" regarding China, and its quest to recover its historical standing as a global power.
• Southeast Asia as pluralistic order: Pardesi points to Southeast Asia as an example of a pluralistic regional order today, with no single center. As he states: "The region is a mix of democracies and non-democracies that engage with each other. It is a plural world that seems viable despite having no core".
• The Power of Small States: How countries like Norway and New Zealand can act as "connector states," spearheading high-quality trade agreements and navigating complex international identities.
• Variable Geometry: Understanding the "messiness" of modern international relations and why a decentered, pluralistic world might actually be a good thing.

Join us for a deep dive into global history and contemporary geopolitics to understand how the world is being reshaped beyond the Western-dominated era.

The World Stage is a global politics podcast from the Norwegian Institute of International Affairs (NUPI). This episode is produced in collaboration with the Norwegian Center for Geopolitics.

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