This conversation was a fascinating, in-depth look from an expert, on a critical subject -- which of course means that it's pretty bleak right now. Neal Desai is currently the head of HR for the State of Maryland, a job he has taken after being at the federal Office of Personnel Management. Neal has a unique front-row seat to the importance, challenges, and modern-day assaults on government workers, and our conversation is a great way to understand what's really at stake. 

In this first half, we talk about what drove him specialize in government workers, the kinds of problems he solves, and how DOGE is actually *costing* us hundreds of billions dollars.