In this inspiring instalment of Never the Same, host Dr Tony Pisani welcomes Professor Pat Dudgeon, the first Aboriginal psychologist in Australia and a global voice for First Nations mental health. 

Pat describes how confronting the racism in the system sparked her mission to “decolonise” psychology and build a new framework called Social and Emotional Wellbeing, a model that places self, family, community, culture, and Country at the centre of healing.

Across the episode, Pat and Tony revisit moments such as the Ways Forward national report, discuss why Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander suicide demands distinct responses, and celebrate community-led successes, from Indigenous Rangers caring for land to universities rewriting psychology curricula. 

Key Points

• Pat’s path to becoming the first Aboriginal psychologist
• Origins and pillars of the SEWB paradigm
• The Ways Forward report and Boat Shed Declaration
• Distinct drivers of Aboriginal & Torres Strait Islander suicide
• Success stories: Indigenous Rangers, psychology curriculum reform
• The role of climate action and caring for Country 

Resources Mentioned

• Ways Forward: National Aboriginal & Torres Strait Islander Mental Health Policy Report 
• SEWB model diagram & “Working Together” chapter 
• Dance of Life wellbeing model by Prof Helen Milroy
• Sweetgrass Research Method — Dr Mark Standing Eagle Baez
• Indigenous Rangers Program (Australia) 

Professor Pat Dudgeon is a Bardi woman from the Kimberley and Australia’s first Aboriginal psychologist. She co-chairs the Centre of Best Practice in Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Suicide Prevention and advocates for culturally informed mental-health systems worldwide.

Dr. Tony Pisani is a professor, clinician, and founder of SafeSide Prevention, leading its mission to build safer, more connected military, health, education, and workplace communities. 

Alan Woodward has spent decades strengthening crisis services around the world — from answering calls on the Lifeline crisis line to advising government leaders and building new programs. In this episode, Alan reflects on what it takes to face hard moments, how crisis services save lives, and why kindness (to others and ourselves) matters more than we realise.

Together, we explore the lessons Alan learned growing up in a coastal city in Australia, navigating career changes, managing anxiety, and staying committed to making the world better.

Guest:
Alan Woodward is a global leader in crisis support and suicide prevention. His work spans decades of service as a researcher, advocate, and advisor to governments and organisations, with deep roots in community-based care.

Host:
Dr. Tony Pisani is a professor, clinician, and founder of SafeSide Prevention, leading its mission to build safer, more connected military, health, education, and workplace communities.

Resources and References Mentioned: 

• Madelyn Gould, Columbia University – suicide prevention research.
• Consensus Statement on Crisis Support from international crisis line networks
• International Association for Suicide Prevention – work on decriminalisation of suicide 
• Lifeline International – Alan’s current organisation 
• Ghana's Decriminalisation of Suicide – paper 
• Australia’s National Suicide Prevention Strategy – released this year 
• Professor Rory O’Connor – theory of suicide and the role of entrapment
• Royal Commission into Robodebt (Australia) – Submission from Suicide Prevention Australia 

Nicole Doyley’s life and writing centre on one key question: What about the children?

In this episode, Nicole reflects on growing up in a biracial family, her evolving racial identity, and the parenting values she developed as a result. She discusses transracial adoption, the impact of Black History Month, how culture shapes resilience, and why awareness and humility are essential for any caregiver.

Nicole shares her family’s story, from her parents’ marriage in the 1960s (when their marriage was still illegal in some states) to her own cross-cultural marriage to a Jamaican man, and how these experiences shaped her understanding of race, belonging, and what it means to be “seen.”

Guest: Nicole Doyley is an author and podcast host whose latest book, What About the Children? Five Values for Multiracial Families draws from her personal and professional experiences. Nicole grew up in a biracial family, served as a campus pastor, and now helps parents and communities navigate race, identity, and parenting with honesty and cultural awareness.

Host: Dr. Tony Pisani is a professor, clinician, and founder of SafeSide Prevention, leading its mission to build safer, more connected military, health, education, and workplace communities.

Resources and References: 

• Nicole Doyley – What About the Children? Five Values for Multiracial Families
• Chimamanda Ngozi Adichie – The Danger of a Single Story
• The Mis-Education of the Negro by Carter G. Woodson
• Lecrae – story of racial identity, healing, and therapy
• U.S. Census – changes to allow multiple racial identities (2000)
• Nicole's podcast – First a Man: growing up in a Black nation (featuring her husband Marvin)

In this episode, Nieves Murray, CEO of Suicide Prevention Australia, joins Dr. Tony Pisani for an insightful conversation about leadership, equity, and personal transformation. From her early career in engineering to leading national suicide prevention strategy, Nieves brings a rich mix of personal stories, professional insights, and hard-earned wisdom.

Key Themes

• The power of bilingual and bicultural identity
• Leadership lessons from aged care, finance, and suicide prevention
• Changing minds: how experience reshapes perspective
• Balancing data with lived experience in policy work
• Grief, care, and learning from family 

Nieves Murray: Nieves Murray is the CEO of Suicide Prevention Australia and has spent over 35 years in leadership roles across aged care, finance, and human services. Recognised as one of Australia’s 100 Most Influential Women, she is a champion of systems thinking, community voice, and inclusive policy.

Dr. Tony Pisani: Dr. Tony Pisani is a professor, clinician, and founder of SafeSide Prevention, leading its mission to build safer, more connected military, health, education, and workplace communities.

Resources and References 

• National Policy Platform by Suicide Prevention Australia
• Good to Great: Why Some Companies Make The Leap and Others Don't by Jim Collins 

Welcome to the Never the Same Podcast! Today, we dive into the science of suicide prevention with Jacinta Hawgood, a clinical psychologist, senior lecturer, and researcher at Griffith University.

Host Tony Pisani is joined by Jacinta, a leader in the field with nearly 25 years of experience, to discuss how structured approaches like the STARS Protocol are reshaping conversations about suicide. Together, they explore:

• How STARS (Systematic Tailored Assessment for Responding to Suicidality) bridges structured tools and personal stories.
• Why protective factors and client-driven care are essential for meaningful interventions.
• How suicide prevention is evolving, with new roles for non-clinical professionals and lived experience leaders.
• The biggest misconceptions about suicide, including fears around asking direct questions.

Jacinta also reflects on her career, how her thinking has changed over time, and why listening deeply is at the heart of effective care.

Don't forget to like & subscribe so you never miss an episode! Together, we’re exploring the stories and strategies that can make a difference.

(c) 2024. SafeSide Media, LLC.

In this episode, Dr. Tony Pisani, Kristina Mossgraber, and Dr. Melissa Dundas discuss the critical role primary care providers play in youth suicide prevention. They share personal insights, professional experiences, and practical strategies to support young people beyond just referrals to mental health services.

They cover how to build trust with youth, recognize warning signs, and create a culture of safety within healthcare settings and communities. Whether you're a clinician, educator, parent, or caregiver, this conversation offers valuable takeaways for fostering connection and providing effective support.

Note: This episode was originally released in 2023 through a collaboration with Aetna as “Practical Advice About Youth Suicide Prevention in Primary Care”. We loved this chat with Dr Dundas so much we wanted to share it again with our Never the Same Audience.  

Guests:
Kristina Mossgraber is a suicide prevention advocate with lived experience and part of SafeSide’s faculty, dedicated to improving support systems for those struggling with mental health.
Dr. Melissa Dundas is a pediatrician and adolescent medicine specialist passionate about integrating mental health support into primary care.

Host: 

Dr. Tony Pisani is a clinical psychologist and educational media lead at SafeSide Prevention.

Mentioned Resources:

• Evidence-based suicide-specific treatments.
• Safety planning intervention.
• Improving cultural competence
• Reformulating Suicide Risk Formulation, foreseeable changes. 

If you or someone you know needs support: 

• National Suicide Prevention Lifeline (US): 988
• Lifeline (Australia) - 1800 551 800 
• Lifeline (New Zealand) - Phone: 0800 543 354 or Text 4357

Production Credits:
Hannah Mang, Senior Video Editor and Producer
Annie Lewis, Content and Communications Manager
Luke Pisani, Music  

(c) 2024. SafeSide Media, LLC.

Dr. Tony Pisani interviews Dr. Arielle Sheftall, a leading researcher in youth suicide prevention, about the crucial issue of suicide among children and pre-teens. Dr. Sheftall shares insights from her work on understanding and preventing suicide in young people, particularly addressing the rising rates among Black youth. This conversation covers the importance of direct communication about suicide with young people, the role of cultural understanding in prevention, and how to build protective factors for at-risk youth.

Key moments include discussions about:
Breaking stigma around youth mental health
How to talk with children about suicide
The impact of family and community support
Cultural considerations in suicide prevention
Resources for families and professionals

If you or someone you know needs support:
National Suicide Prevention Lifeline (US): 988 
Lifeline (Australia) - 1800 551 800 
Lifeline (New Zealand) - Phone: 0800 543 354 or Text 4357 

Production Credits:
Hannah Mang, Senior Video Editor and Producer
Annie Lewis, Content and Communications Manager
Luke Pisani, Music 

(c) 2024. SafeSide Media, LLC.

Welcome to the Never The Same Podcast! Today we explore whether AI can fundamentally transform the way we conduct scientific research, especially in the context of suicide prevention. Tony is joined by Dr. Ian Cero, a faculty member at the University of Rochester and expert in clinical psychology, statistics, and... debating! (Yes, he was a Minnesota state debate champion).

Together, they tackle the question: can AI become a scientist in its own right? They dive into:

• How AI is being used today to generate research ideas and conduct experiments.
• Whether AI can truly be creative or if it just mimics patterns.
• The implications for human researchers—especially those just beginning their careers.
• How we can use AI without losing the essence of human creativity and scientific curiosity.

Ian shares his personal journey—from skepticism to relying on AI as an essential research partner. He explains how his own experience with AI helped him correct misunderstandings and even saved one of his projects from failure.

If you’re a researcher, someone interested in mental health, or just curious about where AI is taking us next, this episode is a must-listen.

Don't forget to like, subscribe, and hit the bell icon so you never miss an episode! We're here to keep exploring the frontiers of science and prevention.

(c) 2024. SafeSide Media, LLC.

This episode of Never the Same delves into addressing suicide concerns among loved ones who use substances. Featuring lived experience insights from Jack Stem and his daughter Kim, alongside Dr. Ken Connor (University of Rochester) and Morica Hutchinson (University of Connecticut), the conversation combines lived experiences and professional insights.

The episode coincides with the release of a no-cost online training resource developed by SafeSide Prevention in collaboration with the UR Medicine Recovery Center of Excellence on SUD Prevention to support those standing together with someone grappling with substance use and suicide challenges. Explore the resource here. 

Key topics include:

• How to start difficult conversations about suicide and substance use
• Ways to ask about suicide directly and sensitively
• How to respond effectively when someone shares their concerns. 

In this episode, the participants share personal experiences and professional insights, creating a balanced discussion that addresses both the practical and emotional aspects of supporting someone at risk of suicide who also struggles with substance use.

Guests:

• Jack Stem: A seasoned counselor and recovery advocate with decades of experience navigating addiction and peer support.
• Kim Stem: A passionate speaker on addiction and mental health, sharing her lived experiences to foster understanding and hope.
• Dr. Kenneth Conner: Professor in Emergency Medicine and Psychiatry at the University of Rochester, specializing in suicide prevention and substance use research.
• Morica Hutchison: the Faculty in Public Health Sciences at the University of Connecticut, focusing on family and community-based approaches to substance use and mental health.

Host: 

Dr. Tony Pisani: Dr. Tony Pisani is a professor, clinician, and founder of SafeSide Prevention, leading its mission to build safer, more connected military, health, education, and workplace communities.

Referenced Resources (Timestamped): 

• Online Family and Friend Training Module (01:30): Developed with the University of Rochester Recovery Center of Excellence. Access here. 
• Three Steps to Ask About Suicide (10:18): A guide for friends and family. 
• 988 Crisis Line (01:03:00): National resource for immediate support. Learn more here.
• Hope Kit (01:03:30): Mentioned as a resource for stabilization. Learn more here. 

Resources to contact if you need crisis help

SafeSide does not provide crisis intervention. These crisis resources are there for you:

• United States 988 Suicide & Crisis Lifeline
• Australia LifeLine Australia
• Canada Crisis Services Canada
• New Zealand LifeLine 

(c) 2024. SafeSide Media, LLC.

View on YouTube: https://youtu.be/PXDtfKsFznI
The shift from traditional risk assessment to collaborative, person-centered care is reshaping suicide prevention. In this inaugural episode of Never the Same, Professor Tony Pisani sits down with Dr. David Jobes, creator of the Collaborative Assessment and Management of Suicidality (CAMS), to discuss this transformative approach.

Dr. Jobes shares insights from decades of work with patients and offers a glimpse into the life-changing potential of CAMS: "You can find a way through an incredibly dark moment and look back, saying, ‘Oh my god, I almost ended my life.’”

Learn how this groundbreaking framework puts patients at the center of their care, fosters hope, and transforms lives.

Guest: Dr. David Jobes
Dr. David A. Jobes is a renowned clinical psychologist and suicidologist with over 30 years of experience. As a professor at Catholic University, he directs the Suicide Prevention Lab and has authored six books and 100+ peer-reviewed publications. Dr. Jobes is the creator of CAMS, a framework that has revolutionized care for individuals with suicidal thoughts.

Host: Dr. Tony Pisani
Dr. Tony Pisani is a professor, clinician, and founder of SafeSide Prevention, leading its mission to build safer, more connected military, health, education, and workplace communities.

Links:

• CAMS training for mental health professionals
• Meta-analysis Paper on CAMS
• Jobes Lab on X.com
• Dr. Jobes’ Bio at Catholic University
• Recommended Standard Care