We interviewed Paul Ehrlich, author of The Population Bomb and founder of the Millennium Alliance for Humanity and the Biosphere, and Dan Blumstein, professor of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology at UCLA.  Using a phrase created by Winston Churchill at the close of World War II, they argue that Covid-19 gives us an opportunity to rethink crucial environmental issues, including the use of animal vaccines and our over reliance on  fossil fuels. They also advocated the idea of a "shadow cabinet," where people not in power shadow and present alternatives to the actions of those in power.