How do ideas spread in today's world? We talk to Henry Timms, one of the authors of the book New Power about why we need to rethink the way power flows through society. It's well established that people no longer trust institutions but do institutions trust people? The conversation draws on examples from Tetris to Texas to demonstrate the characteristics of new power and you've ever wondered how climate change deniers are out communicating climate change campaigners then this is the episode for you.

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