In this week's episode, we talk with Patrick Porter of the University of Birmingham. Porter is the author of The False Promise of Liberal Order: Nostalgia, Delusion, and the Rise of Trump. We discuss why the liberal order has never really existed, and why it is a mistake to rely on nostalgia for it to guide our foreign policy. We also discuss the U.S. military's involvement in Syria and the aimless mission there that never ends.