I've known Joe and John Lombardo since the mid-1990s, when I met them while working at a restaurant called Marie Callender's in Ventura, California. As an alienated, nerdy teenager, I looked up to the Lombardo brothers as models of a different kind of man than the jocks and surfers I was surrounded by in high school. In hindsight, they were my first encounter with hipsterism, and they taught me a lot about being cool. In this conversation, they tell me about their own upbringing, how they came to punk music as a saving grace, encounters with Kurt Cobain, Courtney Love, and Richard Simmons, and why they think the alternative rock scene of the 1990s was the last great moment in American counterculture.