Ocean Science Radio

• Frances's angry text about the executive order, and how it launched this episode
• Meet Dr. David Shiffman: shark science, policy, and why he's called Shark Week's biggest critic
• The story behind "Why Sharks Matter"
• What Section 7 of the new executive order actually says
• NOAA already has a depredation strategy, so what's this task force for?
• Depredation explained: what it means to get "sharked"
• Why shark populations can't simply boom, and why culling wouldn't help
• Sharks learning that engine noise means lunch
• Who serves on the task force, and why that matters
• CITES 101: what Appendix II listings do and don't do
• The real-time depredation reporting app: useful data or skewed data?
• The Trump-shark rabbit hole: the Twitter block, shark fin soup, Sharknado, and the seals
• How listeners can get involved, including public comment periods in the Federal Register

In 2019, there was exactly one Black member of the American Elasmobranch Society — the leading U.S. society for shark and ray researchers — out of 500. Then a single tweet during Black Birders Week changed everything.

Join us as we sit down with Jasmin Graham, President and CEO of Minorities in Shark Sciences (MISS), the organization she and three other Black women scientists built from a viral tweet into a global community with members across four continents — launched just three weeks after that first message, timed deliberately for Juneteenth.

Jasmin studies bonnethead sharks and the critically endangered smalltooth sawfish, one of the last "lifeboat populations" left on Earth, now facing a mysterious new spinning disease that's already claimed an estimated 80 animals in Florida. She's also the author of the memoir Sharks Don't Sink: Adventures of a Rogue Shark Scientist, which draws striking parallels between shark conservation and the fight for Black liberation.

In this conversation, Jasmin shares her "scientific meet-cute" origin story, why she walked away from a traditional academic career, how local fishers and Indigenous oral histories are reshaping what scientists thought they knew about bull sharks and red tide, and what she'd tell any young woman of color who loves the ocean but isn't sure science was built for her.

Whether you're drawn to marine science, representation in STEM, or just want to hear from someone whose stated goal in life is to be sharks' PR person, this episode is a reminder that the people best equipped to change a field are often the ones it wasn't built for in the first place.

Nearly seven kilometers beneath the Indian Ocean, a team of scientists went looking for hydrothermal vents — and found something else entirely. What they mistook, at first glance, for smoking chimneys turned out to be whale skulls: the opening of a necropolis stretching 1,200 kilometers across the sea floor, holding nearly 500 fossilized whales alongside active whale falls still teeming with life.

In this episode, we sit down with Dr. Xikun Song of the Institute of Deep-Sea Science and Engineering, Chinese Academy of Sciences, one of the researchers behind this landmark discovery, newly published in Nature. Dr. Song walks us through the moment of realization on the submersible monitors, the physiology that may be driving deep-diving beaked whales to their limits, and why this site could rewrite what we know about whale evolution over the past 5.3 million years — with remains that may number in the millions, and roughly 6.7 million tons of sequestered carbon locked into the sea floor.

He also shares the story in his own words — in Mandarin, with translation — describing the exact moment his team realized they'd found something extraordinary.

Links mentioned in this episode:

A $386 million network of nearly 900 ocean sensors stretching across five sites from Oregon to Alaska to Greenland was being quietly dismantled, with no warning to Congress and no explanation to the public. In this episode, we trace the fight to save the Ocean Observatories Initiative: what this network actually does, why it matters far more than most people realize, and how a Democrat from Oregon and a Republican from Alaska teamed up to pass a bill stopping it in the span of a day and a half.

We talk with Craig McLean, who spent more than 40 years at NOAA, including two stints as NOAA's Chief Scientist, about what's really at stake when ocean monitoring infrastructure disappears, and why this fight is part of a much bigger pattern. We also revisit a warning from a past guest, marine ecologist Dr. Andrew Thaler, that's looking less hypothetical by the day, and lay out exactly what you can do to help make sure this win sticks.

Craig McLean spent over 40 years at NOAA, where he founded the Ocean Exploration Program and served as NOAA's Chief Scientist, including being reinstated after being removed from the role for defending scientific integrity. He is now a senior fellow at the Ocean Foundation.

Senator Jeff Merkley (D-OR) and Senator Lisa Murkowski (R-AK) led the bipartisan push for the Saving the OOI Act, featured here via Senate floor remarks.

Dr. Andrew Thaler, marine ecologist and conservation technologist, returns in spirit from a past episode where he broke down Project 2025's plans to dismantle NOAA.

Jack Barth, oceanography professor at Oregon State University, provided background on the Coastal Endurance Array via KATU News.

The Saving the OOI Act passed the Senate unanimously, pausing NSF's decommissioning of the Ocean Observatories Initiative pending a full review with stakeholder input. It was led by Senators Merkley and Murkowski and cosponsored by Senators Dan Sullivan (R-AK), Maria Cantwell (D-WA), Ron Wyden (D-OR), Jack Reed (D-RI), Tammy Baldwin (D-WI), Sheldon Whitehouse (D-RI), Patty Murray (D-WA), Elizabeth Warren (D-MA), Edward J. Markey (D-MA), and Chris Van Hollen (D-MD).

Guest: Oliver Gunasekara, CEO & Co-Founder, Impossible Metals

Context & Further Reading:

Key Terms:

Making babies is expensive. For pretty much every species on the planet, reproduction is supposed to be the ultimate metabolic investment—a massive energy drain that can make organisms vulnerable to stress, predators, and environmental change. Except there's a small shark walking around the Great Barrier Reef that apparently didn't get the memo.

In this episode of our Ocean Lovin' series, we explore groundbreaking research from James Cook University that's forcing scientists to completely rethink what they know about the costs of reproduction. Epaulette sharks—those amazing little "walking sharks" that can literally stroll across reef flats on their fins—can produce complex egg cases with developing embryos inside without any measurable increase in energy use. Zero. Zilch. Nada. It's like building a house without buying any extra lumber.

Join hosts Andrew Kornblatt and Dr. Frances Farabaugh, along with returning guest co-host Dr. Skylar Bayer, as we dive into this surprising discovery with Professor Jodie Rummer from James Cook University. We'll explore how her team measured something no one had measured before—the metabolic cost of egg-laying in sharks—and what they found challenges fundamental assumptions about reproduction in the ocean.

We'll learn about the "pay as you go" hypothesis, discover why a tiny organ might be working overtime without changing the whole shark's energy budget, and explore what this means for sharks facing climate change. From the controlled environment of the lab to wild populations scattered across the Great Barrier Reef, this research reveals that evolution has equipped some species with surprising tools for survival that we're only beginning to understand.

Content Advisory: This Ocean Lovin' episode deals with mature subjects related to marine reproduction. Please listen to the full episode before sharing with younger audiences.

Professor Jodie Rummer

The Discovery

The Science

Epaulette Shark Biology

Climate Change Implications

Future Research Directions

Primary Study: Wheeler, C.R., Awruch, C.A., Mandelman, J.W., & Rummer, J.L. (2025). "Assessing the metabolic and physiological costs of oviparity in the epaulette shark (Hemiscyllium ocellatum)." Biology Open, 14(11). DOI: 10.1242/bio.062076

Lead Author: Dr. Carolyn Wheeler (recent JCU PhD graduate)

Research Institution:

Conservation Organizations:

Press Coverage:

Hosts:

Guest Co-Host:

Featured Guest:

After nearly two decades of negotiations, the world has finally agreed on a framework to protect the high seas - that vast expanse of ocean beyond any nation's control that covers nearly half our planet's surface. On January 17th, 2026, the BBNJ Agreement (Biodiversity Beyond National Jurisdiction), commonly known as the High Seas Treaty, officially enters into force, becoming international law.

Join us as we explore this historic moment with two experts at the heart of the effort. Jeremy Raguain, who works with the Alliance of Small Island States, shares insights on Africa's leadership in the negotiations and what meaningful capacity building looks like for developing nations. Rebecca Hubbard, Director of the High Seas Alliance, takes us through the coalition-building journey from 2002 to today, explaining the treaty's four pillars: marine protected areas, equitable benefit-sharing from marine genetic resources, environmental impact assessments, and capacity building.

This isn't just another international agreement - it's the missing piece that could finally allow us to protect 30% of the ocean by 2030, ensure that benefits from ocean resources flow equitably to all nations, and shift away from "parachute science" toward true partnerships. From small island nations reclaiming their identity as "big ocean states" to the complex work of enforcing protections in the world's most remote waters, this episode explores what becomes possible when the world comes together to protect what belongs to us all.

Whether you live on a coast or in a landlocked country, half the oxygen you breathe comes from the ocean. Its health is humanity's health. Discover why this treaty matters for everyone, and what you can do to support its implementation.

Featured Guests:

• Jeremy Raguain, AOSIS Fellowship Director & Ocean Governance Specialist
• Rebecca Hubbard, Director of the High Seas Alliance

Episode Length: 35-40 minutes