The career ladder as we know it has broken

Listen here to understand how and why

Conor Lynch was a guest in Season One of Off the Fence with Purpose and since then he has been busy getting his new book “Learn, Earn Own” ready for publication. It has now been published by Amazon

Learn Earn Own has been described as an amazing resource for anyone starting a new career, changing course, or looking to kick themselves up the career ladder.

Here Conor chats with Jim and Ellen about how the traditional career ladder has broken. And how anyone searching for their first job, planning a career change or launching a side hustle can use his book to design a career that works for them.

He has the experienced breaking the mould of the linear career ladder using his assets and brand as a digital entrepreneur, innovator and educator.

During this fascinating discussion you will hear stories of career changes, career innovation and career re-invention. Even if you have a settled career and are moving or planning to move up the career ladder in your organisation you will be stimulated by this discussion.

As Conor says there is no one career model that suits everyone but there are many opportunities available for career choices. It is not just always about making sudden changes or impulsive decisions, it can be about taking ‘baby’ steps.

Neither do you need to move up your career ladder on your own. He has lots to say about collaborative careers and career experiments

The conversation here also covers how AI is driving changes in education, academia, career guidance and in the recruitment process. If you are a parent who has experienced the traditional career ladder you will find Conor’s understanding of how your children may approach their careers, a bit of an eye-opener.

In the next episode of Off the Fence with Purpose coming later in February the guest is a radio presenter in Dublin whose career has moved in various guises from Ireland to the US, to Crete, the UK and back to Ireland.

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Get ready for another season of great guests with stories from their careers that could stimulate your move up the career ladder where you are now, or want to be in the future

To whet your appetite this episode touches on a few stories from Season 1 in 2025. What we learned during the 21 episodes is that in order to build a great career experience, whether it is advancing and growing in the organisation where you are currently employed, seeking to move to another job in the same sector or making a complete change to your career direction there are some common traits that can help anyone seeking purpose in their work. They are: lean into self-belief and grit; build your network early; embrace side hustles and lifelong learning; prioritise work-life integration and embrace change and have key mindsets such as self belief, curiosity, and connection.

Season 2 will bring more great episodes with interesting stories from super guests that highlight the opportunities to make the most of your career and have a fulfilling life.

We start Season 2 with a quick look back at the variety of guests who told Jim & Ellen in Season 1 about their experience of working in many different roles. These were in retail, journalism, cyber security, charities, digital, financial services, entertainment, hospitality, education, food,corporate coaching, fitness, advertising, broadcasting and even the catholic priesthood.

In this season we have another great lineup of guests waiting for you. Their stories will not only entertain you but could give you that impetus in your career that you might need.

It will also be helpful to those in people management and leadership roles seeking to encourage talent in their organisation.

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A conversation with Liam O’Dwyer which will inspire whatever your beliefs or career path.

Liam O'Dwyer began his working life as a Catholic priest. It wasn’t work as he saw it, more a life of service in the community. That became a focus of his future when he left the priesthood, married and went on to build a career leading financial and charitable organisations.

When he left the priesthood having met his future wife Mary his first job was managing e a programme for the traveller community which involved young travellers learning building trade skills.

He then moved to Amsterdam where Mary went to work with ITT the US global manufacturing company.  When he saw the remuneration package, she was offered he said, “I’ll go with you.”  While in Amsterdam he secured a six-month HR consultancy role.

On returning to Ireland with Mary and a young child Liam joined the Society of Saint Vincent de Paul, first as co-ordinator for the East Region and then as National Director. From there it was CEO of the Irish League of Credit Unions (ILCU) before moving to the Catholic Institute for Deaf People where he oversaw the establishment of a national Deaf Village, a place where all organisations representing the deaf community in Ireland are based.When that project was completed, he joined the Irish Red Cross.

For those considering their career path Liam has these thoughts, “Take your time making decisions, listening and showing empathy are critical attributes as a leader”

he says.

On this podcast Jim and Ellen don't just chat about Liam's career. The conversation ranges across the changes in the Catholic church and the changing culture in the US. Liam also describes negotiating with the EU in Brussels on how different the ILCU was when compared with other much larger Credit Unions in Europe. Liam also describes the scale and operation of the Irish Red Cross in comparison with other Red Cross organisations throughout the world. Discussing the deaths of Red Cross personnel from different countries he believes that in many conflicts there has been a complete disrespect for humanitarian organisations. working in an unaligned manner.

Throughout the conversation it is clear that Liam’s beliefs are driven by the desire to live in a place where justice, peace and love are the starter point to drive services that enable communities to work together and to try and enable governments to support justice, fairness and the elimination of poverty.

An appropriate conversation going live in Christmas week.

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The red thread through a career

Corporate affairs and issue management have been some of the red thread through the career of Michael Patten.

But there were times when life might have been different.  Like been in  Washington DC on 9/11 when he should have been in New York at dinner in a restaurant in one of the Twin Towers.

Coming from a family immersed in media, the creative arts and politics, Sunday lunch in the family home was full of fun and debate which set the tone for his business career..

The conversation in this episode tracks across his career which involved learning about communications, agriculture, food and drink sectors and international business, He began in a relatively small agency specialising in agriculture and moved to high profile corporates working internationally and then to becoming a board member of organisations in the media, forestry, management and state sectors

Michael pivoted through agencies such as Sheedy Communications and Fleishman in Dublin and then in-house with Waterford Foods, Avonmore Foods, Glanbia plc, (twice) and Diageo plc.

Throughout his career he developed interests and accepted challenges at a senior level in reputation management, people management, climate and environmental issues, public affairs, business culture, best practice and purpose.

At one point in the conversation Ellen describes him as a ‘challenge junkie’

You will also hear in this conversation discussions around farmers as great adapters of change, how Irish people integrate so well into international business, particularly in the US and the contribution the Garda Siochana (Irish police) have made to Irish life.

An important career lesson from Michael as someone who has been through a  wide variety of organisations is not to interpret purpose narrowly in the ‘me’, because purpose is more powerful if you make a difference to others.

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"Sitting with Nellie” was great career start

‘Sitting with Nellie” is a colloquial British phrase for learning a job by observing and mimicking an experienced worker.

For Martina Byrne the guest on this episode it was an early introduction to the world of communications.

In her case the ’Nellie’ or ‘Nellies’ were two experienced executives at Murray Consultants in Dublin, the late Michael Colley and Pat Keating, who now runs his own agency.

During the conversation with Jim and Ellen she says, "I was hugely lucky to have such great mentors and I continue to encourage new entrants to the business to take every opportunity to watch closely and learn from their more senior colleagues.

"With so many people working from home there needs to be a balance between WFH and person to person engagement in an office.” she says

Martina also discusses the benefits of being in an office with different colleagues. These include being able to have conversations about strategy and client activities, the ability to throw questions across the room in real time, to learn from seeing people under pressure, how they respond and being visible to senior leaders and make an impression on them.

Other themes covered in this episode include, the importance of crisis communications, critical thinking, the transferability of PR/Communications skills, the need for a 'Sheriff 'with regard to AI and the importance of board governance and responsibility

Martina Byrne comes from a farming family in Galway. Her first experience of working in an office came while studying for a BA Communications Degree at Dublin City University. As part of the degree programme she acquired a work experience position in the international tech company IBM.

Her career proper began with Murray Consultants and she moved on to two other agencies in the PR world, McMahon & Partners and Wilson Hartnell, before moving in-house with the energy company Statoil. At Statoil she set up and led the communications department across multiple energy entities in Ireland. She subsequently went back to Wilson Hartnell as as Executive Director and Board Member. From 2017 until earlier this year she was CEO and Deputy Company Secretary for the Public Relations Institute of Ireland (PRII) and the Public Relations Consultants Association Ireland (PRCA).

In addition she has been a researcher with the Economic and Social Research Institute (ESRI) and a Post Doctoral Lecturer in social science at Trinity College, Dublin (TCD) and University College Dublin (UCD).  In 2024 she was appointed as a Non-Executive Member of the Board of Governors & Guardians at the National Gallery of Ireland by the Minister for Tourism, Culture, Arts, Gaeltacht and Sport.

Earlier this year she established her own agency, Byrne Consultants.

Such a depth of experience provides listeners to this episode with much to consider and learn from when evaluating their own careers.

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Negotiating pocket money as a child and taking up martial arts as a teenager helped shape a business approach

When Michael O’Donohoe now Country Director for Ireland and UK with Wavin, the iconic supplier of above and below ground plastic pipe systems. was a child he had to negotiate for his pocket money every year with his father who worked with a trade union.

Then he took up martial arts and excelled at Taekwondo.. At the age of 17 he achieved a 2nd Dan Black belt and went on to represent Ireland at an international level.

In chatting with Jim and Ellen in this episode of Off the Fence with Purpose Michael explains how both of the these influences shaped his business and management approach.

The learnings from the annual negotiations with his father stood to him as he progressed his career and as he says the attributes needed for Taekwondo; confidence, discipline, respect and communication added to his structured and disciplined approach to management.

His wide ranging career has seen him progress as a sales and marketing professional with national and international experience in diverse industries including Pharma/Biotech, Food & Beverage and Building/Construction. His specialties have included management in general business, sales & marketing, key accounts, project sales and distribution.

Michael graduated with a BS.c Applied Science-Chemistry and Maths from TU Dublin and holds an Advanced Diploma in Management Practice and an M.Sc. in Executive Leaderships from Ulster University.

In addition he has been President and Executive Committee member of the Irish Hardware Association.

This conversation with Michael covers  not only his career and interests but also the state of the building/construction industry in Ireland and the impact of AI on the sector.

While Taekwondo may have shaped his early life Michael has now turned his attention to Ironman and Triathlon events. His description of recently completing the Alcatraz Triathlon is gripping.

Michael describes his style as that of a hands-off manager. He gets the right people onto the bus and then figures out the right seat for them.

His lessons for career development is: be true to yourself, understand your own ability, get out of your comfort zone, challenge yourself and whatever you do pursue it with passion.

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This lively chat with Margaret E Ward covers her time from being a cub reporter in New York, through an award winning journalism career in Ireland with leading national and broadcast media to becoming founder and CEO of a company that is all about business leadership and team development. Her career which also includes serving on the boards of national organisations, writing three books and thousands of articles, provides many useful thoughts for those working on their career path or who have reached leadership roles.

A1 bias provokes an interesting discussion on this episode about how organisations today use AI in the recruitment process.

Margaret began her journalism career in New York where she says as a young 23/24 year old cub reporter she was trusted to tackle investigative stories. Her first being about political campaign donations. She learned quickly the value of trusted sources and this shaped her approach during her journalism career and now to AI.

The only member of her family born outside Ireland she came to Ireland 30 years ago to write the story of her grandmother who at the age of 14 had been interred during the Irish Civil War.

Like many of the guests on this podcast it took a major event in her life to lead to a significant change of career direction. In her case it was a family illness. Without that she says, she would probably never have left full-time journalism.

She continues to write a weekly column for the Irish Times and discussing her company Clear Eye leads the conversation to her strong views on the positives and negatives about leadership, communications and strategy.

Margaret has been a strong advocate for women in media and business throughout her career and on this podcast she articulates those views on the ability of woman to chair the boards and actively contribute to lead roles in any organisation.

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Making a positive difference

Advocating for women in a mental hospital came at a career cost for Louise Bayliss. But as she tells Jim and Ellen in this episode of Off the Fence with Purpose for every negative there is a positive.

Beginning her career as a mortgage advisor in the banking sector she loved helping people find a home. She retained her link with housing when she moved into an advocacy role with Threshold this time helping tenants in the rental sector.

Staying with. advocacy she then moved to the Irish Advocacy Network which led to a tumultuous period in her life when her public actions in support of women patients in a psychiatric hospital brought her into the media spotlight. She lost her job, was then reinstated after a public outcry only to find that on returning to work it was only temporary and with different responsibilities.

She learned immensely from this setback which had a serious impact on her life. She moved on and became a campaign coordinator with Focus Ireland, supporting people out of homelessness and last year she joined to the Society of Saint Vincent de Paul as head of social justice and policy.

Around the time her life was unsettled over her support for the women in the psychiatric hospital she became a founder member and spokesperson for the Single Parents Acting for the Rights of our Kids (SPARK). In 2019 she joined the Council of the National Information Service for Unmarried Parents (TREOIR) and became its chair rin May 2024.

Louise has an MSc in Equality Studies and has been involved in social justice issues throughout her career.

It has been a career of change, some deeply upsetting but she remains upbeat and dedicated to making a positive difference to the lives of those people helped through her work.

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I can do that. I’ll give that a go

In Episode 15 Jim and Ellen chat with Deirdre Ryan who had a long career with RTE in a variety of jobs in radio from being an indoor messenger to working in the music library to becoming a researcher and then moving to television to become a vision mixer.

Having left RTE she saw a gap in the market for people in various technical roles in a growing radio, television and film market and set up a recruitment company called The Production People.While running The Production People she also continued freelancing as a vision mixer.

Talking with Jim and Ellen she describes a love of music instilled in her by her late father, her ability when an opportunity arose to say, “yes I can do that or “I’ll give that a go”,  being involved through her career with some of the key personalities in Irish radio and her involvement in recording major events in Irish life which she says provided an opportunity to witness history as it happens.

In this absorbing episode her advice to those who wish to advance their careers is, Try things, be curious and ask questions.

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In this episode the guest is Derek Kehoe, CEO and Head of Country for BNP Paribas in Ireland.

Although Derek chats with Jim and Ellen about working in financial services his philosophy and approach to management should apply to any sector.

The chat covers his career which began at a time when unemployment in Ireland was at 16%. That was one of his many sink or swim moments. 

At times he was content and had no interest in moving up the career chain while at other times he set his sights on a specific role.

In one case he describes how a senior colleague went from being a sceptic about Derek's ability to mange a large team to becoming his advocate for the position.

The conversation around these moments and how he handled them is engrossing, as are Derek’s approach and thoughts on zero tolerance for disrespect in the workplace, assessing both quantity and qualitative performance evaluation, doing the right thing for clients, pushing yourself out of your comfort zone, bringing your true self to work and a view that if you take on additional responsibilities the rewards will follow.

Catch up now with this and the previous episodes with guests from different business and social areas who share their engaging stories.

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