E18. Turns out "bird brain" is less of an insult and more of a compliment. Scott sits down with Dr. Alex Kacelnik, Emeritus Professor at the University of Oxford, to dig into one of the most mind-bending questions in animal behavior: are birds actually building and using tools, or are we just projecting?

In this episode you'll hear about:

• The experiment that left researchers completely flabbergasted and rewrote what we thought we knew about animal intelligence
• Why flexibility, not raw smarts, is the real test of a thinking mind
• Whether the drive to use tools is something birds are born with, learn, or some surprising combination of both

All audio, video, and images in this episode are either original to Okay, But... Birds (© Okay Media, LLC) or used under license/permission from the respective rights holders. Bird media from the Macaulay Library is used courtesy of the Cornell Lab of Ornithology as follows:

• Woodpecker Finch audio contributed by Robert Bowman, ML82522
• New Caledonian Crow audio contributed by Lucas DeCicco, ML188764
• Hawaiian Crow audio contributed by Tim Burr, ML218670
• Hawaiian Crow video contributed by Timothy Barksdale, ML425081
• Kea audio contributed by William V. Ward, ML8523