Arm yourself because no one else here will save you? It’s a brilliant song lyric, but how far does being self-reliant really help us? When is the time to call for reinforcements? And how do we find the words when social norms tell us to keep things inside, especially if we’re men?

All of these questions and more get answers in this chat, which has its origins off the back of a heated Bond Book club debate.

When they got together, now over a year ago, to discuss Natasha’s first reading of Fleming’s Casino Royale, David and Natasha had wildly diverging views of the character of Bond: Natasha felt Bond was too needy and ‘unmasculine’ whereas David found his vulnerability role model-worthy.

With unflinching honesty, Natasha traces her ideas about masculinity back to early childhood, when she formed a fantasy of the ideal man being of the ‘Alpha’ variety. A defining moment of Natasha’s childhood was her mother - an incredibly strong woman - having a nervous breakdown. This formed her earliest ideas about mental health. Her self-created ‘inner steel’ helped steer her through very difficult times, including finding herself unexpectedly pregnant while at university.

And then, two decades later, a shocking tragedy completely shook Natasha’s foundations and upended her perspective on masculinity and mental health.

A mother of four boys and one girl, Natasha shares her insights into the importance of communication for ensuring mental wellbeing, particularly for young men. David opens up about the ways we can make a difference, using examples from his professional life as an educator.

Ultimately, they agree that the key is finding a middle ground between being self-reliant and knowing when to call for support.

They link everything back to Bond books and films, and specifically the song ‘You Know My Name’. Finally, they share some pearls of wisdom from Bond Girl/force of nature Martine Beswicke.

Natasha mentions fundraising for mental health charity CALM, which you can find out more about here:

https://www.thecalmzone.net/