Dr. Ben Myers is a poet, a professor, and the director of the Honors Program at Oklahoma Baptist University. 

Josh and Ben discuss why poetry matters; they read some favorite poems (including the John Berryman poem that forms the title of this episode), and they discuss how the Christian story provides a framework for discerning beauty and good art. 

Ben Myers is the author of A Poetics of Orthodoxy: Christian Truth as Aesthetic Foundation.