What does it take to make organization design work in the real world? In this conversation, hosts Shradha and Rupert are joined by Jodie Goulden and Richard Lucas from Orgdesign Works to discuss what it takes for successful org transformation. They talk about when to say no to rushed structure changes, how to build internal capability, and why wide and deep engagement beats speed every time. This episode is a roadmap for leaders ready to think systemically and act courageously.