Yes, it's tempting to think this would be about you-know-who. But the Oscar nominated documentary 13th vividly describes the devastation of how we lock people up, how America has 5% of the world's population but 25% of the world's prisoners, and how the consequences for African Americans drive a lot of things, including our political races. John Pfaff (published on the subject in the NY Times and The New Yorker and The Economist and the author of a definitive new book) and Theo Hunt (an African American manager at a Fortune 500 company who conducted a recent study of police traffic stops) join Tom and Dave for a vibrant conversation.