Carl Jamal dedicated his life to serving underserved communities, equipping churches, and empowering individuals through faith-based outreach.

Our conversation today will center around effective urban ministry—how churches can serve inner-city communities with dignity, navigate challenges, and build lasting relationships. We’ll also explore Carl’s unique approach to ministry through hip-hop, prison rehabilitation, and youth outreach.

Carl Jamal's Website

Book Link: Urban Missionary Survival Guide

• People, Not Projects
• Do's and Don'ts of Urban Ministry
• Role of Urban Missionaries in the Church

Carl Jamal is a dedicated community leader and music educator who has overcome significant personal challenges to empower others. Finding refuge in music during a difficult youth, Carl relocated to Atlanta over ten years ago and committed himself to community outreach and charitable work, earning recognition as a respected leader and volunteer. His passion for hip hop fuels his impactful work in prison rehabilitation and youth outreach programs, where he teaches music production and fosters self-expression. Through his resilience and dedication, Carl shares his wisdom and skills, empowering marginalized communities and inspiring positive change.

Born and raised in Baltimore, Carl Jamal faced many challenges in their youth as their mother struggled with addiction and father was absent. Despite these obstacles, Carl Jamal found hope and inspiration in music, channeling their faith and creativity into a pathway toward a brighter future.

After relocating to Atlanta over ten years ago, Carl Jamal dedicated his life to community outreach and charitable work, becoming a respected local leader and volunteer throughout the nation. His passion for hip hop music inspired his life's work in prison rehabilitation, and Youth outreach where he teaches prisoners and at-risk teens the art and technical know-how of music production, writing, and engineering.

Carl Jamal’s unique approach to hip hop education helped him pioneer a new way to reach and connect with local youths. His workshops and events encourage youth to unleash their creativity through hip hop as a means of self-expression and empowerment.

Despite the many setbacks and obstacles Carl Jamal encountered in their young life, they persevered with grace, skill, and ingenuity. Now Carl Jamal shares his wisdom, his love of hip hop, and life skills with others, continuing his journey of empowerment and positivity in the world.

• Carl Jamal's Website
• Book Link: Urban Missionary Survival Guide

01:21 - Introducing Carl Jamal Rumsey

03:21 - How has Carl Jamal's childhood experiences shaped him?

03:57 - ...visited Atlanta and saw church community and Christ

05:43 - ...full-time in urban ministry

06:27 - ...Maverick City Music Initiative

07:07 - ... dedicated life to be a voice for the voiceless

07:25 - Importance of Principle: People, Not Projects (Book)

07:42 - ...church may treat people as a project or a program

09:07 - Top 10 of Do's and Don'ts of Urban Ministry

12:14 - ...why are you serving in urban ministry?

12:36 - Importance of Serving with Dignity

12:54 - ...Where is your heart?

13:25 - Role of Urban Missionaries in the Church

13:40 - ...use urban interests

14:13 - ...be a missionary anywhere

14:20 - ...be mission -minded

15:39 - ...examples of using urban interests

19:32 - ...staying away from labels that have stigma

20:34 - How Carl Jamal's ministry are the hands and feet of Jesus

22:42 - Care about the things that Jesus cares about

23:22 - Upcoming Events

23:39 - ...awareness of mass incarceration

23:51 - Contacting Carl Jamal Rumsey

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Youth ministry veteran Amy Williams ministers to teens involved in gangs and those lost in the criminal justice system with a key strategy of life-on-life mentoring.

Amy Williams' Website

Worth Seeing: Viewing Others Through God’s Eyes

Amy Williams on IVPress

• Seeing People “through the lens of God” in Daily Interactions and Decision-Making
• Meaningful Inclusion with At-Risk Youth
• Learning More from These Youths than Any Other Group

Youth ministry veteran Amy Williams ministers to teens involved in gangs and those lost in the criminal justice system with a key strategy of life-on-life mentoring. As a certified gang intervention specialist, she heard God's call to move into a Latino gang neighborhood in Chicago's Humboldt Park community to be a "Hope Dealer" doing street outreach and walking life with young people on her block. Amy is project coordinator at New Life Centers, bringing in restorative justice programming to youth at juvenile prisons. Amy has been a youth pastor, a reentry coordinator, and a youth mentor and advocate. She is a graduate of both University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill and National Louis University. She resides in Chicago and loves salsa dancing and is a true beach baby.

01:22 - Introducing Amy Williams

05:42 - Amy's inspiration to work with high-risk youth

06:42 - ...deepest pain can become greatest passion

07:25 - ...pull for the underdog

07:54 - Seeing People “through the lens of God” in Daily Interactions and Decision-Making

08:07 - ...evaluate ability to see people through the lens of God

08:42 - ...seeing the value and worth of young people

09:09 - ...God created them for a purpose

09:48 - Meaningful Inclusion with At-Risk Youth

10:13 - ...moving from being watched to being seen

10:49 - ...inviting them into a space where they should already be invited to

11:12 - Justice and Mercy

11:37 - ...the call is to serve both the harmed and the harm-doer

12:05 - ...spirit of mercy

12:31 - ...not "What's wrong with you?" but "What happened to you?"

13:02 - ...compassion for both

14:54 - ...understanding but not agreeing

15:40 - ...opportunity to chnage the direction of kids' lives

16:57 - ...hope that her book would inform us about the issues and help turn compassion into action

17:25 - Learning More from These Youths than Any Other Group

19:55 - The Need to Belong

21:26 - Doing Better

22:07 - ...include people who are involved in the situation

22:57 - ...create spaces for the voices

25:08 - What keeps you going after decades of such intense work?

26:12 - ...God-given work

26:37 - ...community of support

27:06 - ...lost too many young people-- someone is praying for help

28:43 - Give our young people a chance

29:21 - Getting in touch with Amy Williams: ahopedealer.org

29:49 - Book on ivpress.com

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Dr Todd Korpi, author of AI Goes to Church, unpacks one of the most significant technological advancements of our time—artificial intelligence—and what it means for the ministry. More than just another tech fad, AI presents both profound challenges and extraordinary opportunities for the church.

Dr Todd Korpi's Website

Dr Todd Korpi on IVPress

Book: AI Goes to Church

• AI and the Bible
• Theological Ethics Principles
• Church Leadership Starting the Conversation on AI

Todd Korpi (DMiss, Fuller Theological Seminary) is a pastor, missiologist, and church consultant. He is dean of digital ministry programs at Ascent College, assistant professor of Christian Leadership at Fuller Theological Seminary, and works in several capacities at OneHope whose mission is to affect destiny by providing God’s Word to all the children and youth of the world. He also serves as the lead researcher of the Digital Mission Consortia, a collaborative research initiative exploring the frontier of digital ministry. Todd is the author of Your Daughters Shall Prophesy and The Life-Giving Spirit as well as his new book, AI Goes to Church.

• Dr Todd Korpi's Website
• Dr Todd Korpi on IVPress
• Book: AI Goes to Church

00:39 - Introducing Dr Todd Korpi

01:32 - AI in the Bible?

01:56 - ...AI and technology will challenge how Christians approach the Bible

04:49 - ...How vs Why

05:52 - ...Knowledge vs Wisdom

06:45 - ...Stewardship of Creation

08:07 - Human Relationship to AI Bots

08:38 - ...human feelings and dynamics

10:33 - ...look at our origin story - God created humans in His image

16:03 - Theological Ethics Principles

16:27 - ...already discussed: image of God, goodness of creation, mission of God

16:42 - ...inaugurated eschatological hope

18:29 - ...power and kingdom

19:17 - ...human connection and culture care

20:37 - ...citizenship and loyalty

21:24 - ...mysterium tremendum ("holy awe")

22:11 - ...shaping of the inner life

22:31 - ...the economy of the kingdom

22:40 - ...our prophetic responsibility

23:15 - Church Leadership Starting the Conversation on AI

23:26 - ...start small

24:00 - ...do what is appropriate for the congregation

24:27 - ...learn to prompt well on ChatGPT

24:51 - ...automate the boring bits and protect the good stuff

26:19 - ...prioritize the in-person things

27:03 - ...regularly assess what is lost, left behind, or missing

27:26 - ...operate in transparency and community

30:25 - Why write a book on AI?

30:47 - ...identity issues

32:12 - ...AI having more impact than social media

32:25 - ...take the mantle about how the AI and church can protect creation, culture, relationships

33:57 - Book: amazon.com | Dr Todd Korpi: toddkorpi.com or @toddkorpi

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Dr Todd Korpi, author of AI Goes to Church, unpacks one of the most significant technological advancements of our time—artificial intelligence—and what it means for the ministry. More than just another tech fad, AI presents both profound challenges and extraordinary opportunities for the church.

Dr Todd Korpi's Website

Dr Todd Korpi on IVPress

Book: AI Goes to Church

• What is AI? What can it do and cannot do at the present time?
• Do churches hesitate in using AI and technology?
• How is AI technology currently used in the church?

Todd Korpi (DMiss, Fuller Theological Seminary) is a pastor, missiologist, and church consultant. He is dean of digital ministry programs at Ascent College, assistant professor of Christian Leadership at Fuller Theological Seminary, and works in several capacities at OneHope whose mission is to affect destiny by providing God’s Word to all the children and youth of the world. He also serves as the lead researcher of the Digital Mission Consortia, a collaborative research initiative exploring the frontier of digital ministry. Todd is the author of Your Daughters Shall Prophesy and The Life-Giving Spirit as well as his new book, AI Goes to Church.

• Dr Todd Korpi's Website
• Dr Todd Korpi on IVPress
• Book: AI Goes to Church

00:40 - Introducing Dr Todd Korpi

03:29 - Science fiction shapes journey to technology

04:03 - ...science fiction conveys possibilities

06:27 - ...read our culture in the present moment by the popular culture

07:55 - Do churches hesitate in using AI and technology?

08:14 - ...global church & evangelism

10:20 - ...local church

11:04 - ...replacement by digital technology

15:48 - How is AI technology currently used in the church and other avenues for reaching people with the gospel?

17:36 - ...content curation and utilization

19:32 - ...translation

21:06 - ...automating the administrative, backend work

23:57 - What is AI? What can it do and cannot do at the present time?

25:15 - ...AI in the 1950's and the Turing test

25:48 - ...rapid development in the last 20 years

26:05 - ...Google, streaming service, social media, recommendations...

27:06 - ...generative AI

27:26 - ...theories on singularity event

28:24 - ...right now, AI is fundamentally a mirror

29:42 - ...cautious optimism

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Denise Daniels and Elaine Howard Ecklund co-authored a book, Working for Better: A New Approach to Faith at Work. It addresses a world where workplaces are becoming increasingly diverse with a timely guide for Christians navigating the modern faith-at-work landscape.

Book: Working for Better (IVPress link)

Book: Working for Better (amazon.com link)

Wheaton College

• Key Tensions of Faith at Work
• Inequalities Among Minorities
• Respecting Other Faiths Without Compromise

Denise Daniels (PhD, Organizational Behavior, University of Washington) is Hudson T. Harrison Professor of Entrepreneurship at Wheaton College. Her scholarly interests include meaningful work, religion in the workplace, Sabbath, leadership, gender, and motivation. She has written over 50 academic articles and book chapters, and co-authored several books including, Working in the Presence of God (Hendrickson); Religion in a Changing Workplace (Oxford University Press); and Working for Better: A New Approach to Faith at Work (InterVarsity Press). She is on the board of a fintech company and also serves on the board of the Theology of Work Project (theologyofwork.org).

• Book: Working for Better (IVPress link)
• Book: Working for Better (amazon.com link)
• Wheaton College

00:37 - Introducing Dr Denise Daniels

02:42 - Inspiration for researching faith tin the workplace

02:53 - ...exhausted from work and family - looked at Sabbath

04:20 - ...Book: Working for Better

06:17 - Understanding the Lack of Sabbath

07:52 - Summary of the Findings of the Research

08:11 - ...people want to be their whole self at work

09:51 - Surprising Conclusions from the Research

10:15 - ...how many people were interested in engaging their faith at work

10:36 - ...how few people viewed their work as a calling

11:48 - Key Tensions of Faith at Work

12:15 - ...Sacred / Secular Divide

12:46 - ...Individual / Systemic Approach

13:03 - ...Discrimination

13:46 - ...Gender

14:11 - Tensions Affecting Minority Groups

15:26 - ...have you been asked to act contrary to your religious beliefs at work?

17:32 - ...have you been discriminated against because of your sex?

19:33 - ...regional differences

20:48 - Other Inequalities Among Minorities

21:02 - ...overlap with minority religion and people of color

21:42 - ...Christians have a responsibility to create structure to be fair

22:26 - ...principled pluralism

22:54 - Christians being respectful of other faiths while living their own faith

23:11 - ...respect different perspectives

23:18 - ...listen to different perspectives

24:22 - ...know and understand what you believe

24:26 - ...engage respectfully

24:29 - ...seek to understand

26:24 - ...all people reflect the Imago Dei

27:17 - Work / Rest

28:06 - ...easy to work and ignore Sabbath

29:21 - ...hard to disengage from established rhythms

30:23 - ......desire to work: success leads to success

30:29 - ......desire to work: affirmation from other people

30:51 - ......intentionally rest

32:50 - ...there is a cost to not resting

33:31 - The hope is that the book, Working for Better, is useful to congregations and people

34:33 - Finding the book, Working for Better: amazon, IVPress

35:09 - Contact: wheaton.edu (Denise Daniels)

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Michael Huerter (PhD, Baylor University), a pastor at Holmeswood Church in Kansas City, Missouri, shares on addressing the online and in-person church in a hybrid church model.

Book: The Hybrid Congregation: A Practical Theology of Worship for an Online Era

Pastor Michael Huerter’s Church

• Exploring the church's relationship with the internet
• Engaging the in-person and online communities in the worship service
• Benefitting from social platforms

Michael Huerter (PhD, Baylor University) is a pastor at Holmeswood Church in Kansas City, Missouri, where he leads worship and works to build community and connection. As a lifelong church musician and digital native, he is interested in engaging with and contributing to scholarship that bridges the gap between research and practical ministry.

• Pastor Michael Huerter’s Church
• The Hybrid Congregation: A Practical Theology of Worship for an Online Era

00:38 - Introducing Pastor Michael Huerter

02:30 - Exploring the church's relationship with the internet

06:07 - Important considerations for live-streaming

07:59 - ..the church of the future may look different than what we are accustomed to

08:16 - ...the vast majority of churches do not have the resources to create a live broadcast every week

09:50 - ...the community is made of people in-person and online

13:58 - Engaging the in-person and online communities in the worship service

15:07 - ...involving people who join online in worship leadership

17:20 - ...creating interactive moments in the worship service to invite conversation or reflection

21:10 - Benefitting from Social Platforms

21:25 - ...Focus on people, remember the hybrid nature of our world

22:16 - ...How can we best minister to the people already connected with our community?

24:18 - How can we connect with and serve our surrounding community?

25:02 - Are there people who cannot or will not engage in your church building?

26:30 - Paying Attention as a spiritual discipline

30:41 - ...finding ways to deeper attention and connection

31:30 - ...be discerning in using technology; there's good and bad

32:36 - The internet: our greatest affliction and greatest hope

34:04 - Turning affliction to hope

36:19 - Placing our cultural moment in historical context

38:38 - Book on InterVarsity Press Academic and Amazon / Email Michael Huerter: [email protected]

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Tracie Braylock,  a holistic nurse educator and wellness consultant, shares about coping with stress and her new book, Radical Relaxation: Releasing the Stress You Were Never Meant to Carry. Stress is not just a fleeting feeling; it's a silent disruptor, quietly eroding your peace, your health, and your capacity to enjoy life as you know it. Radical Relaxation is your guide to reversing this toxic cycle.

Radical Relaxation on IVPress

Tracie Braylock's Website

• What is stress and what does it do to the human body?
• Biblical Truths to understand in facing stress
• How Churches Can Help Promote Wellness and Reduce Stress

Tracie Braylock is a holistic nurse educator, wellness consultant, and the author of Radical Relaxation. As a former operating room nurse, she advocates for mind, body, spirit well-being, holistic wellness experiences, and liberating relaxation. Her work has been featured in the American Holistic Nurses Association New Beginnings magazine and Proverbs 31 Ministries.

• Radical Relaxation on IVPress
• Tracie Braylock's Website

Spreadsheet to create time stamped show notes

05:14 - What is stress and what does it do to the human body?

05:24 - ...stress is subjective

06:14 - ...stress needs to be addressed

07:11 - Common signs and symptoms of stress

07:21 - ..physical

07:38 - ...emotional

07:46 - ...spiritual

07:55 - ...behavioral

08:27 - Biblical Truths to understand in facing stress

08:55 - ...biblical instructions are designed to protect us

09:02 - ...reactions in the physical body

09:26 - ...we are not alone

09:56 - Holistic Healing: Mind, Body, Spirit

10:07 - ...understanding that we have mind, body, and spirit

10:49 - ...God care about every aspect

11:47 - Preventing burnout and maintaining work-life priorities

12:05 - ...no one is above sickness and stress

13:41 - ...do the basics

14:04 - ...be open to getting additional support

18:36 - How Churches Can Help Promote Wellness and Reduce Stress

19:04 - ...look for ways to come together outside of Sunday services

20:17 - ...remind people

21:00 - ...care for one another and ourselves

21:14 - Favorite Ways to Release Stress

23:12 - Relaxation is Like a Muscle...

24:51 - Contacting Tracie Braylock - traciebraylock.com

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Pastor Naeem Fazal shares about how fear sneaks into our lives as worry, uncertainty, or discouragement, clouding our vision for a brighter future. By following Jesus' example, Fazal paints a vivid picture of a life enriched by hope and perseverance amidst adversity.

Ex-Muslim on Amazon

Tomorrow Needs You on IVPress

Pastor Naeem's Church - Mosaic Church Website

Guest is a frequent contributor, founder, co-founder to/of blog post link

• Beauty in Healing and Transformation
• Recognizing and Navigating Fear
• The Need to Be Needed

Naeem Fazal is the founding and lead pastor of Mosaic Church in Charlotte, North Carolina. He is a Pakistani, born and raised as a Muslim in Kuwait. He came to the United States shortly after the Gulf War and had a supernatural experience with Christ that changed the course of his life. He was ordained at Seacoast Church in Charleston and is the author of Ex-Muslim and Tomorrow Needs You. Naeem and his wife, Ashley, have two children.

00:38 - Welcome Back, Pastor Naeem Fazal

02:11 - God Takes Naeem from a Fearful Past to a Beautiful Future

03:07 - ...traumatic experiences

03:59 - ..."No one needs me..."

05:07 - ...a lie from the enemy

05:48 - Beauty in Healing and Transformation

06:16 - ...connection to what we feel is beautiful

06:48 - ...the essence of beauty is love

08:07 - ...we are created with love and are beautiful

08:28 - ...religion vs perfect love

11:07 - ...put a joy before you to endure your cross

11:49 - Recognizing Fear

12:07 - ... the symptoms of fear

14:18 - ...needing to feel that you are in control

15:24 - ...high or volatile emotions

15:32 - Navigating Fear

15:44 - Choosing Beauty Over Fear

16:05 - ...put a leash on fear

19:16 - Difficulty in Cultivating Joy When Gripped by Fear

19:44 - ...kindess and gratitude

23:15 - Surrounding Ourselves with Positive Influences

23:57 - ...set good boundaries

26:14 - Reframing Failure and Rejection as Steppingstones

28:53 - The Need to Be Needed

29:24 - ..people want to be significant

31:23 - Encouraging Someone Who Feel He Has "Missed" Tomorrow

33:38 - Contacting Pastor Naeem Fazal and Finding His Books

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Pastor Naeem Fazal shares his story about how Jesus revealed Himself to a young, brash, Pakistani Muslim. But He didn’t just reveal Himself; He turned Naeem’s world upside down.

Ex-Muslim on Amazon

Tomorrow Needs You on IVPress

Pastor Naeem's Church - Mosaic Church Website

Guest is a frequent contributor, founder, co-founder to/of blog post link

• Ex-Muslim - testimony of encounter with Christ
• Three components to sharing the gospel with Muslims
• Common mistakes that Christians make in witnessing to Muslims

Naeem Fazal is the founding and lead pastor of Mosaic Church in Charlotte, North Carolina. He is a Pakistani, born and raised as a Muslim in Kuwait. He came to the United States shortly after the Gulf War and had a supernatural experience with Christ that changed the course of his life. He was ordained at Seacoast Church in Charleston and is the author of Ex-Muslim and Tomorrow Needs You. Naeem and his wife, Ashley, have two children.

• Heart for Muslims – link to specific page if mentioned in episode

00:39 - Introducing Pastor Naeem Fazal

04:24 - Book: Ex-Muslim - testimony of encounter with Christ

06:07 - ...treason

08:03 - ..."intoxicated" with peace

09:05 - ...God pursues humanity

09:33 - ...demonic presence

11:27 - ...brother tells him about spiritual warfare

12:05 - ...only Jesus has authority over demons

13:29 - ..."I am Jesus and your life is not your own"

14:47 - ...woke knowing that he was supposed to be in ministry

15:02 - ...led siblings and his father to Christ

15:41 - God has used "extraordinary means" to guide Naeem's life

16:16 - ...coming to Christ was so different from that of other Christians around him

16:46 - ...easy to walk away from a belief or faith, but harder to walk away from a person

17:54 - ...miracles in education

19:06 - ...seeing supernatural things in siblings' lives

22:06 - Specific expectations from Muslims or Christians

22:26 - ...didn't understand that he was considered a traitor by Muslims

24:25 - ...some people did not believe that he is a Christian

26:57 - Three components to sharing the gospel with Muslims

27:14 - ...knowledge

29:07 - ...emotional connection

30:51 - ...spiritual awareness

32:22 - Common mistakes that Christians make in witnessing to Muslims

32:56 - ...comparing religion to religion

36:06 - ...arguing Bible vs Koran

38:20 - ...Jesus doesn't tell us to defend Him; He said to share the gospel and live it out

39:02 - What can churches do to partner with organizations that reach out to Muslims?

41:51 - ...ask ourselves about the prejudice that we might carry

43:16 - ...find an organization or adopt a mosque

46:22 - Hope for the Effect of Book, Ex-Muslim

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Youth ministry veteran Amy Williams ministers to teens involved in gangs and those lost in the criminal justice system with a key strategy of life-on-life mentoring.

Amy Willliams' Website

Worth Seeing: Viewing Others Through God’s Eyes

Amy Williams on IVPress

• Seeing People “through the lens of God” in Daily Interactions and Decision-Making
• Meaningful Inclusion with At-Risk Youth
• Learning More from These Youths than Any Other Group

Youth ministry veteran Amy Williams ministers to teens involved in gangs and those lost in the criminal justice system with a key strategy of life-on-life mentoring. As a certified gang intervention specialist, she heard God's call to move into a Latino gang neighborhood in Chicago's Humboldt Park community to be a "Hope Dealer" doing street outreach and walking life with young people on her block. Amy is project coordinator at New Life Centers, bringing in restorative justice programming to youth at juvenile prisons. Amy has been a youth pastor, a reentry coordinator, and a youth mentor and advocate. She is a graduate of both University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill and National Louis University. She resides in Chicago and loves salsa dancing and is a true beach baby.

00:38 - Introducing Amy Williams

04:58 - Amy's inspiration to work with high-risk youth

05:58 - ...deepest pain can become greatest passion

06:41 - ...pull for the underdog

07:10 - Seeing People “through the lens of God” in Daily Interactions and Decision-Making

07:23 - ...evaluate ability to see people through the lens of God

07:58 - ...seeing the value and worth of young people

08:25 - ...God created them for a purpose

09:04 - Meaningful Inclusion with At-Risk Youth

09:29 - ...moving from being watched to being seen

10:05 - ...inviting them into a space where they should already be invited to

10:28 - Justice and Mercy

10:54 - ...the call is to serve both the harmed and the harm-doer

11:21 - ...spirit of mercy

11:48 - ...not "What's wrong with you?" but "What happened to you?"

12:19 - ...compassion for both

14:10 - ...understanding but not agreeing

14:56 - ...opportunity to change the direction of kids' lives

16:13 - ...hope that her book would inform us about the issues and help turn compassion into action

16:41 - Learning More from These Youths than Any Other Group

19:11 - The Need to Belong

20:42 - Doing Better

21:23 - ...include people who are involved in the situation

22:13 - ...create spaces for the voices

24:24 - What keeps you going after decades of such intense work?

25:28 - ...God-given work

25:53 - ...community of support

26:22 - ...lost too many young people-- someone is praying for help

27:59 - Give our young people a chance

28:37 - Getting in touch with Amy Williams: ahopedealer.org

29:05 - Book on ivpress.com

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