I sat down with Holly, a doctoral candidate whose research blends her lifelong Muppet fandom with the study of play in organizational leadership. We got into her master's thesis, which found that Kermit the Frog — beloved, gentle Kermit — actually displayed some genuinely harmful leadership behaviors backstage. We also talked about what "play" really means for adults at work, why it's not the same as forced fun or icebreakers, and how Jim Henson became her gold-standard example of playful leadership done right.
Meet Holly
Holly is a doctoral candidate at Gonzaga University, where her dissertation explores how adults experience play in the workplace — with employees of the Muppet Studio as her upcoming research subjects. She's also a lifelong Muppet fan who makes her own Muppet-style puppets, and her earlier thesis, "It Felt Like Leadership," examined Kermit the Frog's leadership and communication style.
Follow Holly: @TheHollyJones
Resources mentioned:
Brian Jay Jones' Jim Henson biography
Muppet Wiki
The Jim Henson video collection at the University of Maryland
📸 Instagram: @outofmydepth.pod
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