Movies & Shows Mentioned in This Episode

* The Net (1995) - Sandra Bullock vs. the Internet.

* Tin Cup (1996) - Rene Russo and Kevin Costner rom-com.

* Jerry Maguire (1996) - Cuba Gooding Jr.’s breakout role.

* Buffy the Vampire Slayer (1992) - The movie with Donald Sutherland as the Watcher.

* American Beauty (1999) - Kevin Spacey.

* The Usual Suspects (1995) - Kevin Spacey.

* House of Cards (2013–2018) - Kevin Spacey (TV Series).

* Ocean’s Eleven (2001) - George Clooney.

* Up in the Air (2009) - George Clooney firing people.

* The NeverEnding Story (1984) - Directed by Wolfgang Petersen.

* Air Force One (1997) - Directed by Wolfgang Petersen.

* The Perfect Storm (2000) - Directed by Wolfgang Petersen.

* Troy (2004) - Directed by Wolfgang Petersen.

* In the Line of Fire (1993) - Directed by Wolfgang Petersen.

* Jurassic Park (1993) - Referenced for the “hot scientist” vibe.

* Contagion (2011) - The more realistic pandemic movie (up next!).

* Station Eleven (2021) - The TV series adaptation (and book).

Sarah: Hello, this is Sarah Stewart-Holland.

Laura: I’m Laura Tremaine. Welcome to Slow Read, where we tackle the books you’ve always wanted to read at a pace you can handle.

Sarah: Today is a little bonus episode. When we started, the movie Outbreak came up because I was sort of obsessed with it at the time. And we said we’re going to rewatch Outbreak and talk about it. So that’s what we’re going to do today.

Laura: I mean, I have lots to say. I would like you to know that my first note is: Kevin Spacey. Ew. That’s the first thing I wrote.

Sarah: My first note is: That type of monkey is not actually from Africa.

Laura: Well, listen, we’re playing real fast and loose because my second thing was the witch doctor. We start in Africa several years ago and we’re rolling with some real deep stereotypes here.

Sarah: Yeah, I just don’t feel like this kind of movie would get made today. Not the overall plot of a pandemic, but the African stuff was way “other.” There were overly wise Africans, overly uncivilized Africans. It was just a total racial component that was not a flattering portrayal. Even the fact that we’re just saying “Africa.” They’re in Zaire, but it just was not great.

Laura: It was the 90s. It was a different time.

The Insane 90s Cast

Sarah: Should we back up and explain that Outbreak, first of all, has an insane cast? This was, I mean, I was obsessed with this movie.

Laura: I loved it at the time. I also liked The Net. Remember that one with Sandra Bullock where the Internet’s coming for her? I think there was something about movies that were speaking to this interplay of politics and culture and government and things that could happen through the lens of that.

Sarah: But yeah, it has a superstar cast. Dustin Hoffman is the lead. Rene Russo. I loved Rene Russo back in the day.

Laura: She’s stunningly gorgeous. You didn’t watch Tin Cup with her and Kevin Costner? You must go back and watch it. They are so good together. She had a real moment in the 90s.

Sarah: But, you know, what happens with every era... you go back in the 80s and the men are still existing and making movies like Harrison Ford. But could you name a single woman who was the lead in any of the Indiana Jones movies? No, because none of them have careers anymore. Especially if they were beautiful. If you are beautiful, it’s really hard for people to stay on board with you when that part of you goes.

Laura: So you have Rene Russo, Morgan Freeman, Donald Sutherland, a little baby Patrick Dempsey.

Sarah: He’s so young. And listen, Cuba Gooding Jr. This was the year before Jerry Maguire.

Laura: That tracks for me. He’s good in this. Jerry Maguire was his breakout, but he’s a pretty major part of Outbreak.

Sarah: Why is Donald Sutherland always the bad guy? Why don’t they ever let this poor man be the good guy?

Laura: It’s his face. His face is scary. And also he has a gravelly voice. Now, he is the good guy in another one of my 1990s favorites that I recently showed to my children: Buffy the Vampire Slayer, the movie with Kristy Swanson.

Sarah: But he is excellent. Dustin Hoffman is excellent. But do you buy Dustin Hoffman in this particular role? I do not buy that you would ever be in the military, Dustin Hoffman.

Laura: Well, I did see that they had originally tried to cast Harrison Ford and a bunch of more traditional leading men. But the director ended up really liking casting Dustin Hoffman because he thought it gave it complexity. It sort of had a Jurassic Park feel of like, they were supposed to be nerdy scientists who just happened to be hot.

Sarah: Except for then again, Kevin Spacey shows up. My husband Jeff and I watched it together, and we both came to the conclusion of: Problematic, awful, terrible, no justification. Kevin Spacey is a brilliant actor, but he kind of overacts a little bit in this. He chews up some of that dialogue. Like, why is he such a smartass?

Laura: It’s such a bummer that someone so brilliant is a bad person. Think of all of the problematic, brilliant artists. This comes up all the time. Can you support the art and not the artist?

Sarah: See, this is why when they’re not bad people and they’re also talented, my devotion knows no end. Like George Clooney. Or Julia Roberts. By all accounts, Tom Hanks is a nice guy. I just think there is a delineation between being very, very good and genius level. I know you’re not going to sit here and tell me that Kevin Spacey is a genius and George Clooney isn’t.

Laura: No, George Clooney is looks and marketability. That’s not genius.

Sarah: Oh, I disagree. We are getting far afield. Back to the virus with 100% mortality, Laura.

The Virus & The Director

Laura: 100% mortality. I think this is really important to mention because the director of Outbreak is Wolfgang Petersen. Before we started it, my husband asked if this was Steven Spielberg. I looked it up—Wolfgang Petersen directed The NeverEnding Story, Air Force One, The Perfect Storm, Troy, In the Line of Fire. These are good 90s mid-range action movies.

Sarah: I liked it when it was real-world action. It didn’t have to be intergalactic action in order to get made.

Laura: Okay, we have 100% mortality. This virus would never spread, even through a monkey—especially a monkey that’s not actually from Africa. It really bothered my animal-loving family. They literally could do nothing but focus on the fact that these monkeys are Central American monkeys.

Sarah: Even in the 90s, that was a pretty gross error. Now that we’re all amateur virologists because of COVID, we know that. Although there is a moment where Morgan Freeman says, “If the mortality is that high, anybody will die before they spread it.” So there was an acknowledgement of that. But there was also the part where the monkey was carrying both an airborne version and not an airborne version.

Laura: Speaking of weird choices, I thought it was very weird to leave the President of the United States out of it entirely. We don’t even see his face. We only see a cabinet meeting. Why no actual President?

Sarah: Maybe they spent all their money on the generals. I felt like you could have made Donald Sutherland the President and have the exact same role.

The Scary Scenes vs. Reality

Laura: The scenes I definitely remember from being obsessed with it in the 90s... I remember the aquarium scene where the guy in the pet shop gets it and falls over onto the bank of aquariums.

Sarah: Was that upsetting for your husband?

Laura: No, because we read on IMDb ahead of time that they used fake plastic fish. And then I definitely remember the scene where he looks in the camera and says: “They all got it in a movie theater.” I remember being in the theater and everybody being like, Oh my God.

Sarah: Well, to tie it closer to The Stand, the scene where it’s being spread... in both The Stand and in our lived experience in 2020, that scene probably didn’t give me the shivers in the 90s. I would have been like, Oh, this is anthropologically interesting. But now you’re like, Oh no, they’re all coughing on each other. Don’t do it.

Laura: Before I pressed play, I had mixed it up slightly with the movie Contagion. In the early scenes of Contagion, them all being in bars and hanging out and spreading it without knowing... that is scarier to me than the portrayal of them all getting it in Outbreak.

Sarah: I did like the scene where the little boy is about to take his cookie and the mom says no. Listen to your mothers about their germs!

Laura: Did you think about how funny it is that they have these giant windshield headpieces where you can see their entire faces the whole time? Clearly someone was like, “We’re going to have to design movie-worthy protective gear so we can see the famous faces we paid for.”

Sarah: I thought the scene where the mom has to leave her family was really sad. When she says, “You can’t hug me,” I’m like, It’s too late. They already have it.

Laura: I thought it was kind of a commentary on scientists being dum-dums. One scientist chops his fingers off in the centrifuge. Dustin Hoffman doesn’t notice there’s a rip in his suit. Kevin Spacey snags his suit. Morgan Freeman has the cure and keeps it to himself.

Sarah: The anti-Fauci crowd would have lots to work with in Outbreak.

Laura: Also, when Donald Sutherland says, “Be compassionate, but be compassionate globally,” I was like, oof. That’s a real trolley problem. Can you kill just the child to save the world?

The Ending & What’s Next

Laura: Let’s talk about the ending because it’s truly crazy. It’s such an anticlimactic ending. They save the town, he comes to Rene Russo’s bedside, they make a little joke, and then the movie’s over.

Sarah: She gets better. They’ve made her look healthier. But then it’s just like... okay. It’s just everything’s okay.

Laura: Also, why do all the bombs have parachutes? I don’t think bombs have parachutes in real life.

Sarah: Let me tell you how much I do not know about bombs. A universe. But mainly it just made me think... I really want to watch Contagion again.

Laura: Contagion came out in 2011. No wonder that’s what most of us pictured in 2020. I think we should watch that one next.

Sarah: I’m into it. All right. We’re watching Contagion next. Except honestly, I do have to say after I watched Outbreak, I genuinely thought it was decent from a plot storytelling perspective. But there’s nothing interesting about watching a virus spread anymore. It’s just... all of it feels different now.

Laura: I think Station Eleven, the TV show, is better than the book. You think the scary part is the virus spreading, but it really is all that happens after that that’s so interesting.

Sarah: True of The Stand, true of Contagion, certainly true of Station Eleven. That’s where the interesting stuff starts to happen. And Outbreak is so focused on preventing that, that you miss some of the most interesting interpersonal, societal stuff.

Laura: In Outbreak, I did not feel a creative vibe. I felt like, This is a bummer. Because now we know.

Sarah: So we saved you guys. Don’t rewatch it. Just listen to this conversation. Or if you rewatched it, we would like to hear if you think our takes are hot or not.

Laura: Thanks for joining us for another bonus episode of Slow Read. We will be back in your ears next week with Chapters 26 through 34.

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