This is our seventh episode of the Brain Brew Whisk(e)y Academy. We will discuss paired comparison testing and the craft cocktail recipe - Spanish Manhattan. This podcast episode features Whiskey Maker - Doug Hall and Whiskey Drinker - Tripp Babbitt.

Show Notes

[00:00:04] Brain Brew Whisk(e)y Academy Podcast

[00:01:03] The Paired Comparison Test - The Differentiator

[00:02:58] Companies Aren't Doing Paired Comparison Tests - An Opportunity

[00:04:47] Compare Against Self and Others

[00:05:49] The Craft Cocktail Recipe - The Spanish Manhattan

 

 

Transcript

Tripp: [00:00:04] This is the Brain Brew Whisk(e)y Academy podcasts where we're going to take you behind the scenes on what it takes to build a whisk(e)y distillery business. The Eureka ranch team led by Doug Hall are creating a craft whisk(e)y Company like has never been done before

 

Tripp: [00:00:29] The Brain Brew Whisk(e)y Academy. I think we had tossed around a few ideas before about what we might talk about here other than the craft cocktail. I think we kind of landed on that. We wanted to do the importance of of paired comparison testing. So you'll want to share a little bit about kind of what that is in and how you're using it. Yeah. The Brain Brew and I think you both mentioned that it's kind of a secret weapon for winning competitions. So how does it all fit together.

 

Doug: [00:01:03] Yeah if you want to win competitions folks this is the answer. I guess that's all we got to do. How to Win double golds in San Francisco and at the North American championship and get a ninety five. You know the ultimate spear. JONES Yep. This is how we do it. I'm going to tell you the secret right now. And it's actually the secret to making amazing products or services. It's called the parrot comparison test. So last week we talked about single product tests. We asked people how likely and buy it how new and different it is with paired comparison. We don't ask in the absolute. We ask relative to another offering. So say I have two products. The simplest example is the old Pepsi challenge. For those of you who are old enough to remember that we have product P and product Q Which one do you like better.

 

Doug: [00:01:50] Do you like P or do you like Q better Pepsi's preferred over coke or whatever. That's the same thing we do here and it is our bread and butter Take Two whiskeys sediment glasses TASTER 1 which one would you be more likely to buy which one is more new and different.

 

Doug: [00:02:09] Same kind of way that we talked before then we'll ask other questions you know which one is easier drinking which one tastes like it's been aged longer which one tastes like it would be more expensive a number of other traits smoothness after taste know whatever. Things that we want to ask and that test tells you where you're standing up and what you're looking to get is in our case we like to get a 2 to 1 win which means 67 percent to 33 percent so one third like this one in two thirds like us. That's the standard we're trying to get to is to be preferred. And usually when you start out you lose or you're a tie you know you're just as good as which means you're a commodity for intensive purposes. What you want to do is then you start to do these cycles over and over again until you start to get to a win and that's when you really learn it.

 

Doug: [00:02:58] And this is something that no one in the damn industry does. I mean I'd think I don't think I've never heard in 30 years I've been doing this 40 years 30 years of the spirits industry I've never heard of another company do a paired comparison test ever and I've worked with the big names never seen them never heard of them doing them and definitely not in our case where we do them in the hundreds of tests on things to optimize products and to make it right. And you can do them overnight you do it fast quick they're pretty easy to do you just go to some bars or different venues different places that you can do them at your distillery or brewery work or the buddy at the brewery and do over there you can do them real fast and it is amazing.

 

Doug: [00:03:44] And that is how our we have a product called Noble Oak that we do with one of our partners with the Edrington folks and it's one all the big awards and as well as many of our others big city whisk(e)y and others have won huge scores and huge awards. And it's because instead of us saying my opinion is we run the paired comparisons we've run the paired comparison test to get it right. And it truly is a secret. I don't know how you do product development if you don't have a paired comparison test.

 

Doug: [00:04:16] So I just I just don't know how you can do it.

 

Tripp: [00:04:18] So. So do this. Are you like let's start with beer then I'll go to whisk(e)y. But you know then where are you comparing it against other IPA or you just pick one IPA that you you know if you're in that category is that we could use that kind of the way that you're looking at it or how are you even taking the whisk(e)y or is it you know a you know smoke smoky one versus a spice. You know how do you campaigns. So you're comparing right.

 

Doug: [00:04:47] It depends on what you're trying to do. Sometimes you're doing it against yourself. Like the way our products our products are getting better every time every couple of months our products are better. And that's because we continue to test against ourself find a way to make it better and better and better. And so it's never ending improvement sometimes we usually will take a product cost twice what we get. We are you know we might you know our price normally sell for about thirty five dollars. So in the whisk(e)y business we might be taking against seventy five or one hundred dollar. You know there's a bunch of hundred dollar products that are kind of excessive from a price standpoint in my mind. I mean they're wonderful products but they're just expensive. And so what we want to do is to take one of those luxury products. You know we'll take a product that's 18 years 10 years 12 years go against our time compression stuff that is you know I mean for all intensive purposes it's it's it's you know it's just weeks or a few months old not nine years old. And then compare it against that to see how we do. OK.

 

Tripp: [00:05:49] All right well let's move to our Brain Brew whisk(e)y Academy craft spirit craft cocktail recipe and you've chosen the Spanish Manhattan sweet luxury something I have had one Manhattan in my life and I don't even remember what it tastes like. So what's the story behind the Spanish Manhattan.

 

Doug: [00:06:13] Well as I said in the newsletter I hope we don't have a recession but if we're gonna have one let's enjoy a bit of luxury taste in the process let's have a good time as we're doing it.

 

Doug: [00:06:23] So the classic Manhattan is made with bourbon rye and some sweet removes. And you can do different ratios we tend to do a two to one of the whisk(e)y to the other. And so what I found is in playing around with different things other rich things like sweet removes one of the things there is is a sherry called Petro heaviness or pink Sherry and you can usually get a bottle for about 30 dollars a pretty decent one and I suggest you keep it in the fridge because it's a wine based things you want to keep it cold. Because because because it'll it'll oxidize on you. And the classic would be of a Manhattan style would be one ounce of pink Sherry and two ounces of a good rye. Now we have a noble oak rye or you use one of your local craft whiskeys rise as lot of good rise out there nowadays in Rye is pretty big rye is remember is is the IPA of whisk(e)y. It's that's the bigger taste. But in this case here you need it to stand up to the sherry and it's pretty it's a pretty amazing drink. I mean it's really quite nice.

 

Doug: [00:07:34] In fact now I sometimes push it a little bit more because I like mine a little bit more whisk(e)y forward and so on this I'll do a half ounce of the pack Sherry in two ounces of of the noble oak Rye and I got to tell you the pink Sherry is really intense and so it just balances out take some ice in and stir it. My lucky 13 times and it's it's an amazing drink. It's an amazing drink. If you want a nice sipping at the end of the night you want to sit there and have something pretty luxurious or you've got somebody special coming. In fact as I'm thinking about this we're going over a friend's house on Friday night and I think I'm going to bring the p x with me to make for them and I'll bring the rye with me because it is just got just incredible richness to it and part of it is as I Rye is a huge it's a double oak rye so it's it's pretty amazing to begin with but there's a lot of good right out there that you can use.

 

Tripp: [00:08:35] So so the taste of it is it is it sweeter taste. Is that a how would you describe it. I mean if there are other drinks.

 

Doug: [00:08:43] There's a touch of sweetness to it but it's really rich. It's got layers and layers of flavor. I mean it's just it washes over you with with just layers of flavor. And what happens is is the sherry with the Rye. It's it's rounded it's not harsh it doesn't bite. I mean and you know it's put it with some good ice to it because it's just got us the smoothness and elegance luxurious decadent. I mean these would be the kinds of words I would I would give to it. It is. It is not a refreshing cocktail.

 

Doug: [00:09:19] It's a big mind opening drink.

 

Tripp: [00:09:25] I'll definitely have to try that. Is there a PX Sherry that you recommend or a couple of them that you recommend.

 

Doug: [00:09:33] No there's a bunch of different ones. Alva here is what we use if you look at the short arching see a picture of it that we use a lot but there's others that you can use and find the one that's like with all of the cocktails you know it's find what you like.

 

Doug: [00:09:46] You know here I'm saying do a two to one and I'm also saying you know do two ounces of right half ounce of sherry. I mean find what what is yours. You know this is not about following rules it's about making what works for you.

 

Tripp: [00:10:00] Ok. And just just one final question before we close out this this podcast episode and maybe it should be a not maybe every time we do an episode but kind of an update on because I know you got like approvals coming through in Ohio and this type of thing is kind of the state of the distillery type of thing maybe as far as kind of kind of where you're at.

 

Doug: [00:10:24] Well I've mentioned on here before that if you want to create a distillery the number one thing you have to have is patience to have patience because we've been a week from opening now for months of doing. And part of it is is the people doing permits and inspections and that there just aren't a lot of distilleries. So it's the first time they're doing one and they go well maybe this thing you need to do the scene you need to do and we've been operating partnership with somebody else.

 

Doug: [00:10:54] But the good news is is that the distillery has the electric because we need a lot of electric for our time compression machine to it. I mean it's not back to the future but it's a pretty significant amount of power we have to put in that. So the electric panels are in which are ridiculous in size. The ceilings in the installations in the heating cooling in the drainage systems are in. We've got one inspection done. We've got two more to come this week. Hopefully this week we will get our occupancy. We're also within days from the state of Ohio.

 

Doug: [00:11:31] So all goes well again a week or two. Okay. It is by.

 

Tripp: [00:11:39] A week or two or five months whatever somewhere. Okay.

 

Doug: [00:11:44] So would you have to do is to just be productive at the other side and work through we're getting bottles we got bottles on order coming in.

 

Doug: [00:11:54] We've got our labels. We got some of the labels approved.

 

Doug: [00:11:57] You can work TTB. You have to. You can't do this linearly. You gotta keep working all of the different parts at the same time. And that's that's about how you got gonna do it. I mean it's we're close we're close. Our big thing well for us the big thing we'll be the craft whisk(e)y show in Minneapolis that's when we're gonna open it up and we're gonna start to get some beta testers who want to get into the ad this is a new business model to help them make more money.

 

Tripp: [00:12:28] Well good. And we'll look forward to future episodes of finding out the trials and tribulations and the patient's game that you have to play in order to build this distillery so well.

 

Doug: [00:12:41] And we have set a date because you have to set a date at some point. So Martin Luther King weekend on January 19 and 20 is gonna be the grand opening of the distillery. And so we will be we've got some bands coming we're gonna have a we'll broadcasted on Facebook Live.

 

Doug: [00:13:00] Parts of it and we've got folks coming our partner from over in England is coming over. And so it should be quite a quite quite a spectacle actually.

 

Doug: [00:13:10] So Tripp you're gonna have to come down and maybe do some interviews with people as they're doing because we'll be unveiling our riverboat line of whiskeys and all of that stuff too.

 

Tripp: [00:13:19] So where do we get. I'll probably do that because of my wife my took my daughter's 21st birthdays that weekend but my wife is taking her and some of her friends to Disney World for it. So I wasn't invited.

 

Doug: [00:13:33] Oh wow. Third time I got that. I have a guy's time to just drink too much whisk(e)y. I don't know. No problem here.

 

Doug: [00:13:42] You're not saying excessive. We can't say excessive. I didn't say that. No drinks proper about healthy whisk(e)y. That's the way we have to do it.

 

Tripp: [00:13:50] There's only so much I can drink anyway so self regulated.

 

Doug: [00:13:55] We do. I do too. I I've just found that it's just it's just not fun when you drink too much. It really isn't.

 

Tripp: [00:14:03] Know I was only in college so it was stupid. Exactly. OK. That concludes the seventh. Episode.

 

Tripp: [00:14:16] Have you ever thought about owning your own craft whisk(e)y business. Well subscribed to the Brain Brew whisk(e)y Academy because in early 2019 we'll be offering opportunities to start your own business whether you are an aspiring entrepreneur curious about innovation or just like a good story. The Brain Brew whisk(e)y Academy podcast will take you behind the scenes to learn the good bad. And the ugly about what it takes to create whisk(e)y in the craft space. Which is growing at a crazy rate. Lessons learned can be applied broadly.