Pat and Bernie Driver are Tom's grandparents on his dad's side. This interview took place back in August of 2021, Tom interviews them about their entire life, starting out with their childhood and going through their years as parents and then grandparents. They discuss what it was like for them growing up in the 1940s and 1950s. They talked about Tom's grandfather's career, he worked on some of the earliest computers, working on early versions of software and the computer's hardware. He also loves to work on cars. So they discuss automobiles for a while. Tom's grandmother won a beauty contest so they talk about that experience. They discuss raising kids and what makes a good parent and even their experience raising Tom because they spent a lot of time with Tom when he was a baby. They also own several properties. So they talk about their experience as landlords and what it takes to manage properties. They talk about their involvement with their church and what it takes to live a healthy life and maintain a healthy relationship.