Pat Lam doesn’t mince his words. And honestly, that’s why we wanted this chat.

From his base in the UK as Bristol Bears Director of Rugby, Pat joins Martin to talk about where New Zealand rugby really sits right now, and why pretending we’re still the best is holding us back.

They dig into Super Rugby without South Africa, the state of NPC and club rugby, coaching structures, and why fundamentals matter more than flash.

Pat also opens up about his role in Europe, how success should actually be measured, why money and development are inseparable, and what New Zealand could learn from overseas systems. There’s also plenty on the All Blacks, Razor’s coaching setup, the missed opportunity with Tony Brown, and why depth alone won’t save us.

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