What should we DO with patriotic holidays in the church? Celebrate them? Mention the occasion in a pastoral prayer? Run for the hills? Bill and I talk about the challenges of patriotic holidays and offer healthy ways to approach them. Transcript of our conversation below!

Our Read of the Week

Preaching in the Purple Zone: Ministry in the Red-Blue Divide by Rev. Dr. Leah Schade (And here's the book's website)

About Called - At the Intersection of Life and Ministry

For 50 years between them, Pastor Bill Smutz and musician Sarah Bereza have survived and thrived in churches big and small, urban and rural, good and not so good. With generous hearts and healthy boundaries, they share practical advice for church staff about working smart, cutting out the bs, and embracing the good in ministry. New episodes on 1st and 3rd Tuesdays.

Check out all the Called podcast episodes here, or wherever you listen to podcasts.

New this episode! A transcript

Bill: Welcome to Called, a podcast where we explore the intersection of ministry and the rest of our lives as church workers. I'm Bill Smutz.

Sarah: And I'm Sarah Bereza. Today we're talking about national holidays, patriotic holidays - something that we do in America around Veterans Day and Labor Day and the 4th of July. And what does it mean for us in the church world?

Bill: And maybe a little civil religion mixed in there.

Sarah: Yeah, definitely a little bit. Here's a little bit about Bill and I between the two of us. We have ministered in churches for over 50 years, and we haven't burnt out yet.

Bill: I have pastored in primarily Presbyterian churches for the last several years. I have been doing interim transitional work in UCC congregations. And the churches I served have been large and small and everything in between.

Sarah: And I had been a church musician all over the denominational spectrum - mainline, evangelical ,Catholic, basically if they hire organists, I've worked there. Which means I've done a lot of "The Star Spangled Banner" over the years.

So today we're talking about national holidays, patriotic holidays.

Bill: My sense is we're talking about the area between how we try to be disciples of Jesus Christ, and how we try to worship God, and the influx of what does that mean particularly in the American context when we come to a Memorial Day weekend or a Veterans Day or any political season where the phrase "God bless America" is flying fast and free. And where members of the congregation may come with expectations for how their relatives or service in the military, should be reflected in their worship experiences, and how that not everybody shares that. And how sometimes pastors and other church staff are in agreement with that, and other times they have different opinions and that those differences, those separate perspectives can cause real points of tension within congregations and between individuals and can make ministry really hard.

Ask the WHY

Sarah: Yeah, it can. And I think that one of the things that we're talking about now, is whatever we decide to do in those services around those patriotic holidays, we need to really understand why we're doing that. And that's like the framing question, whatever choice you come to: why, what's the point? I think that that's hopefully a question we ask about all the things that are in our services, especially services where we as the leaders in the local church have a lot of autonomy over the choices that we make. You know, I realize that not everyone listening to this has a lot of autonomy over the choices they make for a given Sunday. But for those of us who do, we really have to pay attention to the choices that we do make.

Bill: We do. And we have our own personal choices and our own theological preferences or understandings. It's my experience over the years that what I believe personally or how I choose to worship and choose to lead worship can be at odds...