Paul spent some time with Riley Clemmons talking about music, life, influence, loss and Michael W. Smith.
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*The following is a transcript of the podcast audio.
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Hey, Lifesongs family. Welcome to the podcast. We’re so excited to have you here. This is Paul, and I’m excited to have acclaimed recording artist, Riley Clemons, on the show with me here today. Riley, thank you so much for being here.
Oh, I’m so excited to be here. This is gonna be so much fun.
So it looks like you live in Nashville. Did you grow up in Nashville?
I actually did. You know, they call us unicorns here, but I did grow up in Nashville. Born and raised Nashville, Tennesseean.
I have a cousin that lives there. I went there a few years ago to visit, and they took me to a place called Biscuit Love. Have you been there?
No. Listen. That’s a touristy spot, and I’m glad that.. but I know exactly what you’re talking about. We do have It’s amazing.
It might be touristy, but it’s amazing.
I mean, growing up in Nashville, the city has grown so much.
The traffic is worse, but the food keeps getting better. We have so much food.
It’s Music City. And so what could you not love about Music City? Did you always know that you wanted to be in music and write songs and stuff like that?
Yeah. I mean, I look back. I started so young writing songs and making music that I didn’t really ever think about coming up with a backup plan. It was, like, immediately, that was my first love was making music and telling stories. And that’s always what I’ve wanted to do. So, no, there was never any backup plan. I always knew that this is this is what it was. It was just a matter of how to do it.
Right. It was just gonna have to work.
There are beautiful things about starting so young. There are challenging things about starting so young. But I think one of the more beautiful things is you have a naive sense of, I can do anything. That really helped me a lot. You know? My adult brain hadn’t quite picked into Right. Okay. We gotta figure out a backup plan.
Nobody was there to tell you you couldn’t do it. You’re just you were going on it.
Me and my family too we’re not backup plan kind of people, for worse or for better.
Right. What’s the thing you love most about being a recording artist?
I think one of the greatest treasures of doing this for a job, which is still so crazy, you can hear that coming out of my mouth. One of the best parts is the connectivity with people. It continues to fascinate me how much songs can connect people with different stories. We were going through things that carry the same emotional resonance. It blows my mind. And so that’s the thing that keeps me going on the tough days and on the good days is hearing the stories about people who have connected with specific songs, hearing about their testimonies and what they’ve walked through and what they’ve been through, all of it. I love the people side of it. I’m a people person to my core. I love people.
And I love getting to meet people. And, yeah, getting to do this has been a really special way to get to meet lots of new folks.
And at the end of the day, that’s what it’s all about is is the people, the people that you can touch and minister to and connect with. And that’s really for any industry. If you’re not reaching people and connecting with them, then what are we really doing?
That’s exactly right. It’s not just specific to being an artist and writing songs and playing them. It it’s no matter what career you’re in or what you’re doing. It is that human connectivity that that gives life meaning and purpose, and it inspires me every day. It really does. True.
What’s the thing that you dislike the most about leaving before an artist?
Oh, gosh. There are some downsides to the job, but they’re it’s nothing crazy. I would say I don’t always love the business side of it, but it I mean, everything’s everything’s a business that that Yeah. No.
Like, I would be great to never see data and streaming numbers and all that. I just wanna write songs and put them out, and I want them to find the people they need to find. So that would be the downside. Yeah.
No. I get that. I grew up in a ministry family. You know, there’s that part where you get to connect with people and all that, but then there’s also the business side that, you know, you gotta pay the bills. And it was always the part that was just like, like, I just wish I didn’t even have to think about this or worry about it or anything like that. With all the success that you’ve had, you’re getting over a 1000000 streams per week. You’re climbing up to 60,000,000 for your career. With all of that and being such a source of inspiration and encouragement for all of these millions of people, how do you handle that? How do you handle having such influence with so many people’s lives?
I’ve handled it differently the older I’ve got. You know, I think that’s part of the thing that you just learn by experience is, I definitely in my most unhealthy, I have a lot of imposter syndrome where it’s the whole Why me God. I don’t get it. I feel very underqualified. I get people telling me all the time, oh, my daughter looks up to you so much, or thank you for being a good role model. And it’s it’s the greatest honor and privilege in the world. And there’s also this part of you that, you know, you feel the weight of it. And, anytime music is ministering, It’s such a great honor and privilege. But I I think it’s just, it’s always important to me that people know I am as imperfect as they come, and I’m very grateful that God is using my songs to to meet people where they’re at. And I’m so truly grateful to be a vessel, and I’m grateful to be an imperfect representation of God’s people. You know? I’m honored to be. I would say I handle it better now. I used to really, really feel a lot of pressure from myself to put on the hat of go be perfect.
Go be the perfect Christian woman. That’s what they want for you. I really thought that for a long time, but I see now that that’s not that’s not where people connect.
People don’t connect to perfection. I heard somebody say once that people will celebrate you for your successes, but they’ll connect with you because of your failures.
Yeah. We we so often wanna just show the best side of us, but it’s really the not so good side that people can go, man, I’ve I’ve got that too.
I deal with that. I think a lot of people can relate to what you’re talking about even though they don’t have it maybe on such a mass scale, but they feel like they’ve gotta uphold an image for, you know, their family or for their coworkers or for whatever situation they’re in. How do you balance the idea of being, you know, authentically Riley, but at the same time, Riley Clemons, you know, this international recording artist, showing enough of yourself to where people can connect, but not so much that you’re just airing out all of your all of your stuff. You know what I mean?
I think it it’s a very instinctual thing. I definitely listen to my gut on a lot of that. And it depends on the situation too. It’s like, there are certain times that I feel more led to share things with certain people, even if they’re a perfect stranger. It’s a fine balance. I think at the end of the day, I wanna connect with people.
Like you said, on what are the failures? What are the weaknesses? What are the things you struggle with? Where do you what are the insecurities? How are you vulnerable?
The laundry list of things. It’s literally a work in progress. That’s the best answer that I have for it. Every single day, it’s a work in progress of figuring out how to balance the tune, what that looks like and feels like, and all that kind of stuff.
Do you find that it’s gotten lighter with time or does it still feel very weighty?
You know, it’s both. It’s both. I think it’s still the same honor and I still feel a great responsibility. I really do. I don’t think that will ever go away.
But I do I do think it’s gotten easier to be authentic. I peeled away a lot of the layers of, what I feel like people want from me. You know? And I think a lot of that just comes with growing up too. You know?
When I was 19, it was harder to be myself because I was I was still in the throes of figuring out who I was.
I’m still in the throes of figuring out who I am, but I think it’s you have more years under your belt, more experiences, more heartbreak, more failure, more all of it. You know? It’s it’s easier to be yourself when you’ve walked through those things, and that’s part of the story.
I love the authenticity that you bring to your music. I’ve listened to Jesus Cries, you know, a bunch of times, and I just love the message of that song. Because, you know, growing up in church and I think I saw that you grew up in church as well. Do I have that correct?
So we we’re very familiar with church face and and the idea that we have to put on this image. And, you know, so often I’ve heard faith preached from a place of it’s a denial of emotion. But I like to think of it more as, like, true acceptance of emotion and the ability to deal with it. And, you know, if I’m angry about something, it does me no good to deny that I’m angry. It does me a whole lot more good to say, look, I’m angry about this or I’m sad about this. I’m depressed about this. And the beautiful thing about that story of Jesus Wept, I saw that that was the inspiration for the song. Jesus, 1, waited for Lazarus to die before he showed up. And 2, knew he was about to resurrect Lazarus, but then still took the time to cry and show empathy. To sit in the mud with his friends and with his family and say this really stinks. I love that you brought that into music.
Thank you. I think that, you know, I I continue to learn even go through hard stuff. Like, I am recently coming out of a pretty heavy season of stuff that’s just happened in my personal life. And even sitting with family and friends, a big takeaway for me, even reflecting on Jesus Christ and the inspiration for us, like, sometimes you just have to sit in the uncomfortable feelings, and you have to pray through them.
And sometimes you you just have to cry. You know, I think it’s like in our human nature, we wanna go from the hurt to the healing in a snap of a finger, but it just doesn’t happen that way. It just can’t. That’s not how it works. And so the song like Jesus Cries, I look back on a heavy season of grief and sadness and walking through the loss of my aunt Sharon to cancer and quickly followed by a really depressive season.
I look back at something like that, and I think of how comforted I was to understand that Jesus wasn’t this far removed, distant deity who’s looking down and just shaking his head like, but we alright. Let’s get to the come on. Let’s get to the it wasn’t it’s not like that. I don’t believe it’s like that. It’s based on scripture.
It’s this closeness. It’s in those moments of sadness that the empathy of Jesus is very powerful to understand. And understanding that Jesus, glorified son of God, is Jesus, man of sorrows as well. He was no stranger to betrayal, hurt, grief, tears, and literally wept at the tomb of Lazarus, with Lazarus’ sisters, with Lazarus’ family. And it says his spirit was heavy.
He was he was he was grieving. It was I could go on and on about it because I think that the empathy of Jesus is is not talked about as much as it should be, to be such a powerful faith transformer. It certainly has transformed my faith to understand that, and I believe that the same Jesus who weeps with Lazarus’ family and weeps with my family in the middle of grief also weeps with you and what heavy season you’re going through.
Especially in, like, American culture, we have this propensity to see God and Jesus almost like a businessman who’s got something he’s trying to get accomplished through you, and you just need to get on board and everything else just needs to fall by the wayside and indeed to just focus on what he has for you. But I’ve I’ve come to learn in life that Jesus is way more concerned about who we are on the inside than what we achieve on the outside.
And he’s way more interested in being with us in those sad moments than he is about just, like, alright, get over it so that we can go and do something great for somebody else. He he’s really with us. When he says that he’s with us and he’ll never forsake us, he really meant that. And it wasn’t just that he’d never leave a a location. It was that he would never leave you when you’re not feeling up to it that day, when you’re feeling anxious, when you’re feeling sad or depressed, he’s not going anywhere.
And he’s sitting there with you until you are ready. Yeah. Exactly. You know, it’s so real. I find in the heavy seasons of life, that those are the times that I’ve really found myself calling out to Jesus in desperation sometimes.
Do you know, just when my heart is so heavy, I don’t know what else to do. And I think that when we have that that interaction and that intimate connection with Jesus in those times, it really builds so much faith. It builds so much character. I do believe that our hardest moments, our heaviest moments, can make us so much stronger on the other side of them. And not just on the other side of them, I think we get stronger as we walk through them.
People forget the bravery and the strength it takes to get through a hard day. Sometimes getting through the day is the biggest accomplishment, and that is something to celebrate. That’s a beautiful thing. And I love what you said. The the heart of Jesus is to be intimately interwoven and connected to us all all the time.
But that that’s so true. He won’t leave or forsake us. And he can deeply empathize with our pain. He knows pain. How do you walk the fine line of being honest about how you’re feeling and what’s going on in life, but also speaking faith and believing that he is a promise keeper who’s gonna be true to his word.
You know, I’ve always found it interesting that in, like, the worst of worst spots, like, my mom was diagnosed with brain cancer several years ago and passed away from it. And one of the toughest things during that time was dealing with the I am healed according to the word of God. And, you know, she is sick, and we are going through this, and it is difficult. How do you find balance in that? Not just with your own personal life, but also in how you represent God through your songs and through your music.
I’m sorry. I’m so sorry. I just Oh, thank you. Yeah. She she was amazing.
And to be honest, it’s when looking back, it was one of the worst times in life to be sure, but it was also just one of the most beautiful times in life because of how our family came together and because how she walked through it. I mean, when I tell you she was just such a lover and a person of faith and and just walked with the Lord through that whole thing, she was such a great example to everyone that came in contact with her during that time.
It’s amazing. That is so wow. That is so beautiful.
You know, I think that just as you the balance of it, I think you just have to talk about it. For me, you can be a person of deep faith and also talk about the things that upset you and make you have questions. And I think you just hold you you hold both because that’s I think that sometimes it can be dangerous, you know, when somebody is walking through something like what you’ve walked through or in those heavy moments, you’re saying, well, you know, God’s the ultimate healer and everything’s everything’s gonna be fine and it’s all gonna be meant to be. It’s like, great, that makes me feel so much worse.
That’s easy to just slap a Bible bumper sticker on it and put a band aid on it and just move on. It’s also really important to sit in your feelings and look at other people’s feelings enough to be able to really say like, no, this is hard. This is hard to reconcile with. This makes me angry. This makes me so sad that my stomach hurts.
You know, like, this makes everything feel dark and heavy. I think you have to. There’s a lot of good that comes from not only telling that to the Lord because he can he can handle that stuff. I I I believe that. I know that to be true, but also finding community, whether it’s family or just people you trust that you can be honest and say, no, this is hard.
This is so hard. This hurts. And I I think that there’s a lot of freedom in just in in saying that, in getting it out and not holding it in and trying to put a band aid on things. You gotta move through it. It’s amazing how the world opens up to us when we decide to drop the mask.
You know, we think we’ve got to put on this image for everybody. But, really, that’s what’s keeping us from connecting and from building community and from building strong friendships. When we learn just to drop the act, God brings us into such a and that’s with him too. Not only does that help us connect with other people, but until we’re willing to drop the act with God and be honest with how we feel, we’ll never develop a deeper, stronger relationship with him. You’re so right.
That’ll preach right there. But wearing the mask doesn’t do a lot of good. Yeah. You can’t shove things down. They, they will always come back up.
I find it’s better to try to deal with them and walk through them even if it’s a messy process than shoving it down and ignoring the feelings. At 24 years old, you’ve been in the industry since what, like 17 or 18? Yeah. I put out my first song when I was 18, but I started co writing around Nashville when I was 14 or 15. Yeah.
I mean, I was I was learning how to write. I’d always written songs for myself and Mhmm. Just sitting in my bedroom and started writing around town to see what it’d be like to be an artist and definitely took my time learning and soaking it all in and, released my first song called Broken Prayers when I was 18. I think I was 18. Yeah.
In 2018. And, it’s crazy. Time flies. Time flies so fast. It really does.
Was your family in the industry as well? No. Nobody’s in the industry. Okay. So you really didn’t know what you were getting into initially?
Well, yes and no. Growing up in Nashville, you’re you’re around it enough to feel like it’s not a strange thing. Mhmm. It’s more commonplace than it would be growing up in Wyoming, you know. So that was good.
My mom had more of an understanding of the business. My parents are business people in general, so they understood that aspect of it and were just really fantastic leaders and helpers as I was navigating that. As a 18 year old, you know, I didn’t know what I was doing. I learned on the job every single day. I felt like I was learning on the job.
What new things are on the horizon? I think I saw that you have a Christmas EP coming out. Yes. I have a couple Christmas songs coming out this Christmas, and I’m also going on a tour this Christmas with the absolutely iconic, can’t even believe the words are coming out of my mouth, Michael W Smith.
Oh, he’s just been my favorite. Some of my earliest interviews I ever did when I was 18 and thought it was absolutely the craziest thing that people wanted to interview me. They would always ask dream collaboration, and I would either say Stevie Wonder or Michael W. Smith.
Those were, like, my go to answers. Good answers either way. Yeah. They’re they are good answers. Solid answers.
Did you go more the traditional route with the Christmas, or did you do some originals? Both. Both and. Okay. Awesome.
Mhmm. Yeah. I love it when people try something new, but I also like to hear just the old classics at the same time. I do too. I like both, and we we try we’re bringing that to the Christmas season this year.
It’s both the classic and familiar as well as the original. Thank you so much for being on the podcast with me, Riley. I really appreciate it. Thank you so much.
It was so much fun. So much fun. Thank you for the time and asking great questions.
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