News flash: Slavery didn’t end after the Civil War. Thanks to the massive loophole of the 13th Amendment, it’s still going strong - in the form of forced prison labor all across America. We take you to Louisiana, the world’s incarceration leader. Local historian Eric Seiferth tells about Louisiana’s barbaric prison labor system, where inmates are forced to toil in the same fields worked by enslaved people over 150 years ago. We’re talking reparations? Let’s start by actually ending slavery in America!

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Guest: Eric Seiferth 

Eric Seiferth is a curator and historian with the Historic New Orleans Collection. His extensive research was instrumental in creating Captive State: Louisiana and the Making of Mass Incarceration, an exhibit examining the roots of Louisiana’s dubious distinction as the incarceration capital of the world.

More on Louisiana's slave labor system:

• Promise of Justice Initiative – New Orleans-based group fighting to stop enslaved labor and other atrocities of the Prison Industrial Complex.
  
  
• Derrick Fruga's Return Home - Short film about formerly incarcerated man whose nearly two decades of forced labor earned him just enough money to buy his mother a bouquet of flowers.
  
  
• Visiting Room Project – Website lets you sit face-to-face with people serving life without parole at Angola Prison, telling their stories in their own words. The only collection of its kind with over 100 interviews.
  
  
• Angola Prisoners Lawsuit

 
More on mass incarceration and forced prison labor:

• “13th” – Oscar-nominated documentary on our history of forced prison labor and the 13th Amendment loophole.
  
  
• Equal Justice Initiative – One of America’s leading advocacy groups fighting for justice in the penal system.
  
  
•  California Voters Reject Anti-Slavery Proposition
  
  
• ACLU graphic of America’s coast-to-coast slave wages for prison labor

More on “Captive State” and HNOC:

• Captive State: Louisiana and the Making of Mass Incarceration - exhibit website
  
  
• Historic New Orleans Collection website 

HIGHLIGHTS OF EPISODE

[5:45] Forced labor in the Louisiana prison system

[9:01] Through-line from slavery at Angola plantation to slave labor at Angola Prison today

[19:28] Louisiana eliminates parole for life sentences and adds life-term offenses

[23:19] Louisiana’s impact on brutal practices across U.S. prisons

[28:40] Tension in New Orleans between horrific oppression and creative resistance

[33:48] Importance of shining a light on our true history and organizing for reparations

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Money isn’t the only part of reparations - but it sure is a big one! We sit down with William Darity and Kirsten Mullen, the nation's leading reparations experts. They answer key questions: How big is the tab? Who gets paid? What good is money unless we first change our racist society? They also break down why they're hopeful that reparations will happen in America - and tell us about the transforming power of cold hard cash.

SHOW NOTES

Guests: William Darity and Kirsten Mullen

William A. Darity Jr. is Professor of Public Policy, African American Studies, Economics, and Business at Duke University. He’s the founding director of the Cook Center on Social Equity at Duke.

A. Kirsten Mullen is a writer, folklorist and lecturer whose work focuses on race, art, history and politics. She’s the founder of Artefactual, and was part of the team that designed the National Museum of African American History and Culture.

Darity and Mullen co-wrote the award-winning book From Here To Equality: Reparations For Black Americans in the 21st Century.

William Darity's home page

Kisten Mullen's bio


Selected works by Darity and Mullen:

• From Here To Equality: Reparations for Black Americans in the 21st Century (2020)
• The Black Reparations Project : A Handbook For Racial Justice (2023)
• Black Reparations in the United States: An Introduction (2024)

 Related articles:

• “Stolen Lives” - Elizabeth Wrigley-Field’s piece on stolen Black time and the “longevity gap” (2024)
• "What Is Owed" - article in the Nation on Darity and Mullen’s case for reparations (2021)
• "The New Reparations Math” - on Thomas Craemer's revolutionary approach to calculating the tab (2020)

HIGHLIGHTS OF EPISODE: 

[14:57] The racial wealth gap and their plan for money reparations

[24:42] The longevity gap and reparations

[32:54] Eligibility issues for Black American reparations

[42:36] Encouraging news on growing public support for money reparations

[49:25] Problems with local and state initiatives

[58:34] Mullen on the importance of collective will and calls to action

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Some of the greatest players ever were kept out of Major League Baseball for nearly 70 years - due to the collusion of the racist team owners. We visit with Bill Greason, 100, the oldest surviving Negro Leagues player, and baseball historian Larry Lester, to make the case for long-overdue reparations by MLB. We crunch some numbers and calculate the tab to right this historic wrong. It's time to play ball!

SHOW NOTES

Guests: Bill Greason and Larry Lester
 
Bill Greason, 100, is one of two surviving players from the Negro Leagues. He was a star pitcher for the Birmingham Black Barons and mentor to the great Willie Mays, before becoming the first Black pitcher for the St. Louis Cardinals in 1954. He was also one of the first Black U.S. Marines. Rev. Greason has served as a pastor at a Birmingham, AL church for over 50 years.

Larry Lester is the leading Negro Leagues historian. His epic research spanned over 40 years and filled 25 file cabinets in his home. Lester played a pivotal role in the integration of Negro Leagues statistics into the Major League Baseball records in 2024. He also co-founded the Negro Leagues Baseball Museum in Kansas City, MO.

More on Bill Greason:

• Bill Greason’s biography
• Bill Greason Takes Another Trip Around the Bases at 100 by Joseph King

More on Larry Lester:

• Larry’s website
• Larry’s all-time greatest baseball player: "Bullet" Joe Rogan
• With Deliberate Speed by Larry Lester (article about 1950s baseball integration)

More on baseball integration and reparations:

• Wendell Smith's Vision Helped Clear Jackie Robinson's Path to Majors by Isabelle Minasian
• The Rippling Manifesto by Ernest DiStefano
• View From Third Base (Willie Mays 1960 All-Star Game) by Gary Rhoades

Visit:  Negro Leagues Baseball Museum (Kansas City, MO)

HIGHLIGHTS OF EPISODE:

[13:45] Bill Greason describes his navigating the Ku Klux Klan in Birmingham

[17:02] Greason compares the quality of play in Black and white baseball

[18:21] Greason on his mentoring the great Willie Mays

[19:57] Greason speaks on the prospect of reparations to Negro Leagues players

[24:22] Larry Lester on the role of the Black press in integrating baseball

[25:38] Lester on his role in helping to integrate the baseball record books

[30:34] Lester compares the quality of play in Black and white baseball

[35:10] Lester on Negro Leagues innovations

[43:38] Adam calculates the $800 million owed by MLB to Negro Leaguers

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A dirty secret in U.S. history is how local property taxes have been used to steal massive amounts of land and money from Black people, for the last 160 years. The Black Tax, a new book by historian Andrew Kahrl, exposes these scams that helped create the colossal racial wealth gap of today. The damage to Black Americans? More than $600 billion in straight-up theft – and trillions in lost generational wealth!

SHOW NOTES

Guest: Andrew W. Kahrl

Andrew Kahrl is a Professor at the University of Virgina. His research focuses on the social and political history of racial inequality in the United States. He teaches courses on African American history, race and real estate, and U.S. urban history.

Books by Andrew Kahrl:

• The Black Tax: 150 Years of Theft, Exploitation, and Dispossession in America 
• The Land Was Ours: How Black Beaches Became White Wealth in the Coastal South
   

Related readings and resources:

• The Whiteness of Wealth: How The Tax System Impoverishes Black Americans - And How We Can Fix It by Dorothy A. Brown
• “Blacks in South Struggle to Keep the Little Land They Have Left” (NY Times 1972)
• Federation of Southern Cooperatives (Land Assistance Fund)

HIGHLIGHTS OF EPISODE:

[10:55]  Over-taxing of Black-owned property

[13:54]  Under-servicing of Black communities

[22:18]  The tax sale scam

[26:06]  The saga of Evelina Jenkins

[29:08]  The tab: damages to Black Americans for stolen property

[39:32]  Andrew Kahrl’s proposals to repair the tax system

[42:22]  Importance of solidarity to creating a more just system

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This is an exciting time in the fight for Black reparations! As momentum builds across the country, Pay The Tab is expanding in new directions - including the first-ever reparations course at UCLA Law School. In this special episode, Tony and Adam bring the latest news, answer your questions, and share things we all can do to disrupt America's toxic system of racism, denial, and capitalist greed.

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The largest-ever court award for slavery reparations came from an unlikely plaintiff. Henrietta Wood was an enslaved woman who gained her freedom in the 1840s - only to be kidnapped and sold back into slavery for 15 more horrific years. Her heroic fight for payback is inspiration for today’s reparations battle. Join us with historian Caleb McDaniel, whose book telling Wood's story, Sweet Taste Of Liberty, won the Pulitzer Prize.

SHOW NOTES

Guest: W. Caleb McDaniel

Dr. McDaniel is a professor at Rice University and U.S. historian, focusing on the Civil War Era and the struggle over slavery. He chairs the Department of History and serves as co-chair of Rice's Task Force on Slavery, Segregation, and Racial Injustice. His book, Sweet Taste of Liberty: A True Story of Slavery and Restitution in America, was awarded the 2020 Pulitzer Prize in History.

• Caleb McDaniel's home page
• Caleb McDaniel's book about Henrietta Wood, Sweet Taste Of Liberty
• Stolen by Richard Bell - story of five Black boys kidnapped from Philadelphia into slavery in 1825 
• More about Henrietta Wood's son Arthur Sims including his photo in Jet Magazine when he was America's oldest practicing Black lawyer!
  
  

HIGHLIGHTS OF EPISODE:

[5:57] The “reverse Underground Railroad” and kidnapping gangs in border states
[12:51] The villain: Zebulon Ward
[17:37] The case: Henrietta Wood v. Zebulon Ward
[20:38] Generational impact of court award on Wood’s family
[28:42] Importance of political action in the fight for reparations
[31:52] The hero: Henrietta Wood

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Rep. Justin J. Pearson blows away our live audience with his bold case for reparations - and for making change through multiracial solidarity. He speaks on the racist connections of gun violence and environmental pollution; and what we need to do to fix things. Also on video!

SHOW NOTES

Guest: Rep. Justin J. Pearson

Rep. Pearson is one of the most exciting new progressive voices in America. He’s state representative for Tennessee's 86th district, which includes the city of Memphis. He made international news in 2023 as part of the "Tennessee Three" when he was expelled and then reinstated after leading protests over gun violence. He led a multiracial movement that took on billion-dollar corporations and saved Memphis’s drinking water by blocking a pipeline scheduled to run through the city’s Black community.

• The closing argument: Rep. Pearson’s case for reparations in 10 minutes
  
  
• Rep. Justin J. Pearson and the Tennessee Three: NPR piece
  
  
• Justin J. Pearson’s fight against the Memphis pipeline on Heather McGhee's podcast
  
  
• More on the “solidarity dividend”: Heather McGhee’s book The Sum of Us
  
  
• More on Justin J. Pearson’s time as an activist at Bowdoin College
  
  
• Rep. Pearson’s letter addressing the his colleague’s inaction on gun reform April 2023
  
  

HIGHLIGHTS OF EPISODE:
 
[17:24] What “environmental racism” is and how it hurts communities
[25:56] Importance of a multi-racial, intergenerational movement for justice
[29:52] Reparations for environmental racism
[39:02] Racist origins of the Second Amendment
[49:29] How gun violence and environmental racism are connected
[55:35] The case for reparations in 10 minutes
[1:11:06] Audience Q & A

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Did you know Black Americans get about one hour less sleep each night than white people? Less sleep means serious health problems - and shorter life spans. We dive into this shocking “racial sleep gap” with a leading authority on the subject, Dr. Dayna Johnson. She breaks down where it comes from (spoiler alert: it’s all about racism) - and what we need to do to fix it!

SHOW NOTES

Guest: Dr. Dayna Johnson

Dayna Johnson is an Assistant Professor of Epidemiology at Emory University in Atlanta. She earned her Ph.D. in Epidemiologic Science from the University of Michigan. Dr. Johnson completed her postdoctoral fellowship at Harvard Medical School and Brigham and Women's Hospital. Her research explores the causes of sleep health disparities, especially those due to race and gender.

• Dr. Dayna Johnson’s home page
  
  
• From Tricia Hersey (AKA the “Nap Bishop”):
  • "No More Grind”: her podcast interview about rest as resistance
  • Her manifesto, Rest Is Resistance
• Great article: “Reparations for Black People Should Include Rest”

HIGHLIGHTS OF EPISODE:

[0:55] Tony & Adam on the “racial sleep gap”

[9:52] Societal racism as root cause of the sleep gap

[14:42] How individual racism impacts Black people’s sleep

[16:48] Why Black people with more income and education often get less sleep

[26:25] How Black trauma can cause lifelong sleep problems

[33:51] Ideas on reparations for Black Americans’ sleep

[48:51] Tony’s call to action for Black listeners

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In the largest single act of mass incarceration in U.S. history, our government forced  over 125,000 Japanese Americans into prison camps for three years during World War II. On this special live episode, two leading activists join us to expose the true story of this racist atrocity, the fight for reparations that followed, and the importance of racial solidarity in all movements for change. We know Black America can achieve reparations: it’s been done before!

SHOW NOTES

Guests: Kathy Masaoka and traci kato-kiriyama

Kathy Masaoka was active in the movement for Japanese American redress in the 1980s and has worked to educate Americans about the camps. She co-chairs Nikkei for Civil Rights & Redress (NCRR) and is active in the fight for Black reparations, testifying before Congress in support of H.R. 40 in 2022.

traci kato-kiriyama is an award-winning multi-disciplinary artist and activist, recognized for her work as writer, performer, cultural producer, community organizer, and audiobook narrator. traci co-chairs the National Nikkei Reparations Coalition and is on the Why We Can't Wait Coalition.

Check out the VIDEO of this live episode! 

More on the incarceration of Japanese Americans:

• Searchable list of all 125,284 names of those incarcerated (Ireizō)
• NCRR’s book on the fight for Japanese American reparations
• Videos of the 1981 hearings
• “Pilgrimage” documentary
   

More on traci kato-kuriyama’s work:

• traci’s website
• Their amazing book Navigating Without Instruments
   

More from bridgette bianca:

• Her poem from our live show: “There Goes The Neighborhood”
• bridgette’s homepage

The California Reparations Task Force proposals for Black reparations

Highlights of episode:

[9:56] Bogus excuses vs. real reasons for Japanese Americans’ incarceration

[15:31] Kathy and traci's family experiences in prison camps

[21:45] traci reads "No Redress"

[29:39] Clips from J.A. reparations hearings

[36:51] Limitations of J.A. reparations

[39:11] Lessons of racial solidarity

[52:05] traci reads "Note to Nikkei Community on Reparations" 

[56:35] Q & A

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Mass incarceration is a cancer that’s devouring Black communities. Writer and filmmaker Asia Johnson joins us and shares her experiences as a formerly incarcerated woman - and her visions for a new system of justice. Recorded with a live audience. Also on video!

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Guest: Asia Johnson

Asia Johnson is a writer, filmmaker, and activist for the rights of incarcerated people. She is the Manager of Storytelling for zealo.us, a national advocacy, arts, education, and media institute. Her debut short film “Out of Place” screened at universities across the country. She is currently working on her first feature length documentary.

Check out the VIDEO of this episode! 

More about Asia and her work:

• Asia’s homepage
• Asia’s first film Out Of Place
• zealo.us
• Right of Return Fellowship
• Art for Justice
   

More about the prison-industrial complex:

• 13th (Ava DuVernay’s documentary masterpiece)
• The New Jim Crow (Michelle Alexander’s definitive book)
• Vera Institute of Justice
   

More about Restorative Justice:

• Until We Reckon (book by Danielle Sered)
• Common Justice (Sered’s RJ organization in Chicago)
• Restorativejustice.org

Highlights of episode:

[8:20] Asia shares her early life and family experiences

[18:20] Asia shares her experience in prison

[22:23] [Asia explains challenges people face after prison

[31:59] Asia envisions abolition of mass incarceration

[37:24] More productive ways to spend $200 billion

[38:56] Restorative justice as alternative to mass incarceration

[55:03] Adam discusses indifference of white America as key obstacle

[56:24] Asia’s Q&A with the audience

[1:14:37] Asia’s closing poem and call to action

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