Episode 38: Pediatric Intubation: Are Children Just Small Adults?

The EMS Lighthouse Project Podcast exists to foster knowledge translation from peer-reviewed scientific journals to the street. Join Mike Verkest and Dr. Jeff Jarvis as they shine the bright light of science on EMS practice in an informative and fun way.

Medicine

Science & Medicine

Health & Fitness

Description:  Let’s say you were looking for a safe and effective BLS option for analgesia. Something other than oral acetaminophen or ibuprofen. You want the Green Whistle (methoxyflourane) but you can’t get the Green Whistle (thanks FDA!). How about sub-dissociative ketamine by nebulizer? Sounds great, but you’re worried about your colleagues getting stoned, aren’t you? Admit it, you are. Fortunately, there are breath actuated nebulizers. Maybe those things will work?   Dr Jarvis reviews a recent paper that compares the effectiveness of nebulized ketamine compared with IV ketamine. And he gives a quick review of some other papers that paved the way for this one.   Citations: 1. Nguyen T, Mai M, Choudhary A, Gitelman S, Drapkin J, Likourezos A, Kabariti S, Hossain R, Kun K, Gohel A, et al.: Comparison of Nebulized Ketamine to Intravenous Subdissociative Dose Ketamine for Treating Acute Painful Conditions in the Emergency Department: A Prospective, Randomized, Double-Blind, Double-Dummy Controlled Trial. Annals of Emergency Medicine. (2024) May 2. 2. Motov S, Mai M, Pushkar I, Likourezos A, Drapkin J, Yasavolian M, Brady J, Homel P, Fromm C: A prospective randomized, double-dummy trial comparing IV push low dose ketamine to short infusion of low dose ketamine for treatment of pain in the ED. Am J Emerg Med. 2017;August;35(8):1095–100. 3. Motov S, Rockoff B, Cohen V, Pushkar I, Likourezos A, McKay C, Soleyman-Zomalan E, Homel P, Terentiev V, Fromm C: Intravenous Subdissociative-Dose Ketamine Versus Morphine for Analgesia in the Emergency Department: A Randomized Controlled Trial. Ann Emerg Med. 2015;September;66(3):222-229.e1. 4. Motov S, Yasavolian M, Likourezos A, Pushkar I, Hossain R, Drapkin J, Cohen V, Filk N, Smith A, Huang F, et al.: Comparison of Intravenous Ketorolac at Three Single-Dose Regimens for Treating Acute Pain in the Emergency Department: A Randomized Controlled Trial. Ann Emerg Med. 2017;August;70(2):177–84. 5.Dove D, Fassassi C, Davis A, Drapkin J, Butt M, Hossain R, Kabariti S, Likourezos A, Gohel A, Favale P, et al.: Comparison of Nebulized Ketamine at Three Different Dosing Regimens for Treating Painful Conditions in the Emergency Department: A Prospective, Randomized, Double-Blind Clinical Trial. Annals of Emergency Medicine. 2021;December;78(6):779–87. 6.Patrick C, Smith M, Rafique Z, Rogers Keene K, De La Rosa X: Nebulized Ketamine for Analgesia in the Prehospital Setting: A Case Series. Prehospital Emergency Care. 2023;February 17;27(2):269–74.

FAST24 | June 10 - 12, 2024 | Wilmington, North Carolina
FAST24 is our annual conference for pre-hospital and critical care transport professionals, including nurses, paramedics, and other disciplines. It features engaging workshops, talks by industry leaders, and focused sessions on air and surface critical care transport medicine. The event also offers a unique vendor experience, special guest appearances from notable talent in the industry, catered lunches, as well as relaxing and entertaining networking and social opportunities. Tickets are limited so don’t wait! Visit fbefast.com for more information.

Nebulized Ketamine?

What value does EtCO2 have when it comes to predicting survival from cardiac arrest? We all know a sharp spike in EtCO2 is associated with ROSC, but what about persistently elevated levels? What does this mean for decision making when it comes to termination of resuscitation?   Join Drs. Jeff Jarvis, Remle Crowe, and Heidi Abraham for the first episode of “Between Two Nerds”, a subgenre of the EMS Lighthouse Project podcast suggested in episode 82 by Dr. CJ Winckler, as they run through a new paper that may shed some light on this question.   Citation: 1. Smida T, Menegazzi JJ, Crowe RP, Salcido DD, Bardes J, Myers B: The Association of Prehospital End-Tidal Carbon Dioxide with Survival Following Out-of-Hospital Cardiac Arrest. Prehospital Emergency Care. 2024;April 2;28(3):478–84. 2. Levine RL, Wayne MA, Miller C: End-Tidal Carbon Dioxide and Outcome of Out-of-Hospital Cardiac Arrest. N Engl J Med. 1997;337:301–6. 3. Page, J. The Magic of 3 AM. PennWell Books. Tulsa, OK. 2017  

FAST24 | June 10 - 12, 2024 | Wilmington, North Carolina
FAST24 is our annual conference for pre-hospital and critical care transport professionals, including nurses, paramedics, and other disciplines. It features engaging workshops, talks by industry leaders, and focused sessions on air and surface critical care transport medicine. The event also offers a unique vendor experience, special guest appearances from notable talent in the industry, catered lunches, as well as relaxing and entertaining networking and social opportunities. Tickets are limited so don’t wait! Visit fbefast.com for more information.

Ep 83 - EtCO2 in Cardiac Arrest

The debate about which drug to use for sedation prior to RSI will.. just.. not… die. Advocates for both ketamine and etomidate approach the argument with near-religious zeal. There have been studies. We’ve even covered some here. What we need is a systematic review and meta-analysis, preferably using a type of analysis that recognizes that this likely isn’t a black and white question and can bring some.. .nuance to it. That’s were our friend Bayes comes in. Dr. Jarvis is joined by Drs Remle Crowe and CJ Winkler to discuss this paper and what in the hell Bayesian analysis actually is. We get some nice book recommendations in the process. Plus, we check in with ChatGPT for answers. Oh, BTW... don't take zoological advice from Dr. Winkler. Contrary to his thoughts, Giraffe's do NOT, in fact, have larger hearts than elephants.  Citations:
1. Koroki T, Kotani Y, Yaguchi T, Shibata T, Fujii M, Fresilli S, Tonai M, Karumai T, Lee TC, Landoni G, Hayashi Y. Ketamine versus etomidate as an induction agent for tracheal intubation in critically ill adults: a Bayesian meta-analysis. Crit Care. 2024 Feb 17;28(1):48. doi: 10.1186/s13054-024-04831-4. PMID: 38368326; PMCID: PMC10874027.
2. Russotto V, Myatra SN, Laffey JG, et al. Intubation Practices and Adverse Peri-intubation Events in Critically Ill Patients From 29 Countries. JAMA. 2021;325(12):1164-1172. Bonus book recommendations
3. Heller J. Catch-22. New York, NY: Simon & Schuster; 1961.
4. McGrayne SB. The Theory That Would Not Die. How Bayes’ Rule Cracked The Enigma Code, Hunted Down Russian Submarines & Emerged Triumphant From Two Centuries of Controversy. Yale University Press; 2011.
5. Salsburg D. The Lady Tasting Tea: How Statistics Revolutionized Science In The Twentieth Century. Henry Holt & Company; 2001.

FAST24 | June 10 - 12, 2024 | Wilmington, North Carolina
FAST24 is our annual conference for pre-hospital and critical care transport professionals, including nurses, paramedics, and other disciplines. It features engaging workshops, talks by industry leaders, and focused sessions on air and surface critical care transport medicine. The event also offers a unique vendor experience, special guest appearances from notable talent in the industry, catered lunches, as well as relaxing and entertaining networking and social opportunities. Tickets are limited so don’t wait! Visit fbefast.com for more information.

Ketamine v Etomidate for RSI: A Bayesian Meta-Analysis

Atrial Fibrillation with rapid ventricular response is a common cause of EMS activations and ED visits. It is associated with chest discomfort, palpitations, and hypotension. Treatment is aimed at either rhythm control or rate control with rate control being the most common first line approach. EMS has the potential to treat this condition with medications such as diltiazem, metoprolol, or amiodarone. For those patients with hemodynamic instability, EMS can provide synchronized cardioversion. The question for this podcast, however, is does it matter if EMS treats A Fib or not. Dr. Jarvis recorded this episode in front of a live audience at the State of Jefferson conference in beautiful Ashland, Oregon with Mike Verkest, and special guest Dr Maia Dorsett.    Citation: Fornage LB, O’Neil C, Dowker SR, Wanta ER, Lewis RS, Brown LH: Prehospital Intervention Improves Outcomes for Patients Presenting in Atrial Fibrillation with Rapid Ventricular Response. Prehospital Emergency Care. doi: 10.1080/10903127.2023.2283885 (Epub ahead of print).

FAST24 | June 10 - 12, 2024 | Wilmington, North Carolina
FAST24 is our annual conference for pre-hospital and critical care transport professionals, including nurses, paramedics, and other disciplines. It features engaging workshops, talks by industry leaders, and focused sessions on air and surface critical care transport medicine. The event also offers a unique vendor experience, special guest appearances from notable talent in the industry, catered lunches, as well as relaxing and entertaining networking and social opportunities. Tickets are limited so don’t wait! Visit fbefast.com for more information.

Treatment of Atrial Fib with RVR

Dr. Jarvis is joined by OG co-host Mike Verkest and Dr. Brent Myers from NAEMSP 2024. We talk about an intriguing concept in cardiac arrest… giving the initial dose of epinephrine IM instead of starting an IV or IO. They discuss a 2021 paper that compared this approach to standard dosing in a feasibility study done in Salt Lake City. Those authors released some additional data from this study… this time about survival. We talk about the potential ramifications. 
 Citations: Pugh AE, Stoecklein HH, Tonna JE, Hoareau GL, Johnson MA, Youngquist ST: Intramuscular adrenaline for out-of-hospital cardiac arrest is associated with faster drug delivery: A feasibility study. Resuscitation Plus. 2021;September;7:100142. 


FAST24 | June 10 - 12, 2024 | Wilmington, North Carolina
FAST24 is our annual conference for pre-hospital and critical care transport professionals, including nurses, paramedics, and other disciplines. It features engaging workshops, talks by industry leaders, and focused sessions on air and surface critical care transport medicine. The event also offers a unique vendor experience, special guest appearances from notable talent in the industry, catered lunches, as well as relaxing and entertaining networking and social opportunities. Tickets are limited so don’t wait! Visit fbefast.com for more information.

Episode 38: Pediatric Intubation: Are Children Just Small Adults?

Download our free app to listen on your phone