Violent threats against members of Congress are up, and hate crimes have increased to the highest levels ever recorded. Fear is being used as a tool by both Republicans and Democrats to win votes.

In this episode, we speak with Rachel Kleinfeld, a fellow in the Democracy, Conflict, and Governance Program at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace.

Rachel says people talking across differences isn't enough to end polarization, even if it can create goodwill and lower the temperature in the short term: there needs to be institutional change and politicians who come together to defend democratic norms.

A recent podcast guest in the UK told us it sometimes seems like the US is on the verge of civil war. Rachel says this is unlikely. As someone who grew up in Alaska among neighbors firing the occasional warning shot from their yards, Rachel knows firsthand that 'threats and justification for violence are not the same as attacks.'