Mike talks with Jason Pack, host of the Disorder podcast, in this crossover episode. In addition to hosting the Disorder podcast, Jason is an Associate Fellow of the Royal United Services Institute (RUSI), a Senior Analyst for Emerging Challenges at the NATO Defense College Foundation, and the author of Libya & the Global Enduring Disorder.

Topics Mike & Jason discuss include:

What “global enduring disorder” means.

Why Cold War unity faded.

Power: hard, soft, cultural & convening.

Neopopulism’s fake solutions.

U.S. blunders in Iraq & Afghanistan.

Why Ukraine is different.

Trump, Israel & the Middle East.

Reasons for optimism amid disorder.

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Check out the excellent Sustainable Planet podcast.

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