What do shrimps in Vietnam, prison keys in Denmark, and school schedules in Romania have in common? They give us clues to how to respond to Covid-19 and other change challenges. And they are examples of the positive deviance approach to change that is at the center of this episode. Positive deviance (PD) seeks to identify people in communities and organizations who do things differently - and more effectively. With more than 100 projects in more than 40 countries, positive deviance celebrates its 30th anniversary this year. We will talk with Lars Thuesen, one of the most experienced PD change leaders, about his work and his deeper insights into this method.