This podcast and its cohosts (DJ Trump and George) are well-known for our enthusiasm for President Trump, but we also enjoy intellectual discussions of worthwhile viewpoints. Since at some point new leaders in the conservative movement will emerge, George interviewed a conservative (and previous guest), Ramesh, who didn't much care for President Trump but, unlike many others who opposed President Trump, could offer a positive vision for how conservatism could develop and grow in the future, building from Trump's successes while (in Ramesh's view) eschewing his flaws. George and DJ Trump would like to disclaim full agreement with all of the viewpoints presented while recognizing agreement with many of them and thanking Ramesh for presenting a rare positive, principled conservative vision from a Trump opponent.