In this episode of Associations NOW Presents, guest host Jarrod A. Clabaugh, CAE, president and CEO of the Ohio Society of Association Professionals, is joined by Mary Kate Cunningham, CAE, Chief Public and Governance Officer at ASAE; Dawn Mancuso, CEO of the Association of Schools and Colleges of Optometry; and Mark Falzone, President of Scenic America. Together, they dive into the essential role Political Action Committees play in advancing association advocacy. The discussion breaks down PAC compliance requirements, why PACs matter in today’s legislative environment, and how associations can more effectively engage their members and leaders in political action. The guests highlight recent advocacy wins—including efforts to halt costly tax reforms—and underscore the need for consistent participation to ensure the association community’s voice is heard. The episode closes with a clear message: advocacy is a shared responsibility, and association leaders must stay active to protect and advance their missions.

Check out the video podcast here:

https://youtu.be/k8Ys7y1lB_M

Associations NOW Presents is produced by Association Briefings.

Transcript

Jarrod A. Clabaugh, CAE: [00:00:00] Welcome to this month's episode of Associations NOW Presents, an original podcast series from the American Society of Association Executives. I'm Jarrod Clabaugh, President and CEO of the Ohio Society of Association Professionals. And this month I'm lucky to be the host of this podcast. Before we begin, I would just like to thank our three panelists for being on the call today.

Thank you, Dawn, Mark, and Mary Kate today. We're excited to welcome Dawn Mancuso, the current chair of ASAE PAC, and also the Executive Vice President and CEO of Association of Schools and Colleges of Optometry. And the immediate past chair, our friend Mark Falzone, who is the president of Scenic America. And Mary Kate Cunningham, who most of you likely know, ASAE's, chief Public Policy Officer and governance officer. Friends, let's jump right into the questions. We have a lot to cover. Mary Kate, thank you for the great work you do and the rest of the team and the public policy department at ASAE. Would you mind [00:01:00] providing our listeners with a quick overview of what a PAC stands for and also what missions of PACS often are?

Mary Kate Cunningham, CAE: Absolutely. Thanks so much for having me. So PACS are Political Action Committees and we're gonna talk about PACS at the federal level that are formed by trade associations, professional society and other membership organizations. And the goal is to support candidates that align with their policy goals and interests.

The PACS are funded by voluntary contributions by individuals, so  they have to be by eligible members. Again, individuals and not corporations. There's a lot of restrictions around giving and around reporting to the federal government. So federal ballot prohibits associations from using dues or general funds for contributions to candidates.

It's really just from your individual members. Also must have a designated treasurer for compliance. They also must register with the Federal Election Committee and follow very strict reporting and disclosure requirements. That includes regular filings and contributions and expenditures. [00:02:00] And for solicitation, they can only solicit from their restricted class, which is members, executives, and certain employees.

For trade associations, they have to follow prior approval where they get specific approval from companies to solicit their individual members there. So the Federal Election Committee is what they have to follow the rules for, and we say sometimes in PAC world, FEC jail is real jail. So PACS are a great tool for advocacy.

There’s very strict reporting that you have to follow. 

Jarrod A. Clabaugh, CAE: Sexy stuff. Mark and Dawn, would either of you like to share any examples of PAC victories or PAC experiences the two of you have been involved in? 

Dawn Mancuso: I will say that in a prior life I ran a small trade association where we did have a Political Action Committee and had to deal with those regulations where we had to get permission from the CEO in order to solicit or even talk about the PAC in many ways with their employees at different [00:03:00] levels of the organization.

Which can be challenging if you're trying to reach the advocacy folks at a particular institution, but it is doable and there are strategies you can employ to make sure that you can speak to as many of the individuals at the member organizations as possible. 

Jarrod A. Clabaugh, CAE: What about you, Mark? 

Mark Falzone: PACS are a part of the political ecosystem.

And so if you're not playing in that field, then you're not taking advantage of the entire range of tools available at your disposal. And I think that  SAE has done an amazing job with their PAC under Mary Kate's leadership and Michelle Mason's leadership, and making sure that they have every tool at their disposal when they're using the pack versus lobbying.

Direct lobbying versus grassroots lobbying. This is just another tool in the tool shed that every organization should really make sure that they have at the ready for them to use. 

Jarrod A. Clabaugh, CAE: I would throw this next question out to all of our [00:04:00] panelists. When you think about turbulent times, what kinds of challenges come to mind for PAC leaders today?

Mark Falzone: I think that this year, ASAE has been the most turbulent time that it could be in my memory. Literally, associations were on the chopping block when it comes to taxation and tax treatment associations were about to get taxis levied against them where all of a sudden nonprofit statuses were in question.

For some associations, this would be the equivalent of a death penalty, and for other associations it would certainly mean cuts. I would say that this year, 2025 has been very turbulent in terms of the association world, but Mary Kate with her leadership and Dawn as the ASAE PAC Chair has done an amazing job in navigating ASAE through these turbulent times.

And, I would defer to Mary Kate to speak a little more on the amazing work of what ASAE had [00:05:00] to do in order to make sure that the tax bill ended up okay. And associations still are not subject to taxes because of Mary Kate and ASAE's work and Michelle Mason's work and Don Mancuso’s work. 

Mary Kate Cunningham, CAE: Thank you so much, Mark, and thanks to all of our members who helped to make this big victory possible.

But about a year ago, we were preparing for tax reform like everyone else in Washington, knowing associations are always a target. Our non-dues revenue specifically, and this was not our first rodeo show with tax deform, but this was a much more serious threat because two major, well-respected Think Tanks called for.

Taxing nonprofits across the board at the corporate rate, which is 21%. So all told there were 6.5 billion in additional taxes on nonprofits that were introduced this Congress for the tax reform bill. So through all of the advocacy of ASAE members around the country, we were able to defeat all of those 6.5 billion over the course [00:06:00] of the legislation taxes.

Specifically the biggest taxes were the nonprofit parking lot tax. That would be the tax on employee transportation costs that associations give the first time that we would be paying a tax, an excise tax on an expense. So that was also a potential constitutional issue. And then a huge other source of taxation that was introduced in the house was on royalty income.

So on that tax revenue, it would be taxing our revenue on royalties that are received that are part of unrelated business income. Those are, in addition to the across the board tax that was floated and never introduced because lawmakers support associations. I think that's the main focus over the last year that we're really proud of.

But we know we're not out of the woods, so it's something we're continuing to engage on. And I would say PACs are a great tool, as Mark said in your advocacy strategy to elect candidates who share your association. [00:07:00] Positions on these important issues and on your legislative priorities. I'll also note, I think we really take a nonpartisan strategy for our work, and most PACs are nonpartisan supporting candidates from both sides of the aisle that support their positions.

Dawn Mancuso: Thanks Mary Kate. I really applaud the work you've done, your whole team as well as the leadership at ASAE, Michelle as the CEO, because you saw the handwriting on the wall and you took action at a time when we had to get prepared, we had to put the resources in place and ASAE made the commitment to do that and marks.

Very sweet to pose me as the leader of the PAC, but during much of this work, he was the chair of the pac. I was the vice chair and learning as voraciously from him as quickly as possible. So it's been a real team effort and I really appreciate playing a role in this. We're right. Politics are very contentious right now.

ASAE characterized the tax threat that took place this past [00:08:00] year as the biggest one that we've ever faced since the creation of the tax code back in 1913. So we've got a lot of concern behind this, and that has helped to mobilize people. But when you've got this kind of winners versus losers framework happening in the larger environment, people are divided and they may respond by saying.

They pull away from the public arena or altogether, or disengage, or alternatively, they become tribalized. They really only wanna support one team, and these are the times when PACs can make a big difference. There is a critically important tool to help educate legislators from both sides of the aisle about the value of associations to American society.

PAC leaders are challenged to break through all the noise. To make sure that our value is understood. I think we will continue to play a very important role in ASAE's advocacy efforts in the future to come. 

Mary Kate Cunningham, CAE: Jarrod, your point [00:09:00] also brought up a another issue for me. When you're thinking about turbulent times for associations and association PACs, I think the candidates that are not taking association PAC dollars is also something interesting.

I've noticed, it seems, like these candidates are more likely not taking corporate PAC dollars. Sometimes they're actually saying encouraging, giving through the association PAC instead. But as he talked about with the FEC Regulations Association, PACs are some of the most regulated ways to engage in the political process.

There's so much sunlight. So I think that telling that story and that I think is important too. 

Jarrod A. Clabaugh, CAE: It sounds like a lot of this is tied to education and getting. The association leaders educated, getting members educated, and then also going out and making sure you're actually educating members of Congress.

And as somebody who participated in the fly in this past year and in other years, many of the approaches changed when we started telling our stories and when our members started telling our stories. How [00:10:00] then do you think we can work with leaders within our own, maybe membership or just within the space to help them engage more and to get them excited about delivering those messages to lawmakers?

Mary Kate Cunningham, CAE: One idea we just had, what I think. We realize that the top percentage of members are always really engaged in advocacy, but there's so much room for growth for people who are newer members to the association. So just putting on more, as you say, Advocacy 101 or Your Association Advocacy 101 sessions, I think is a great way to make it feel approachable so people realize that.

I think if they're not, if they don't have a background advocacy, they might be a little more hesitant too. Go to hill days, and when we make it more transparent, I think that people realize that they are the experts really talking to the congressional staffer, they're the ones bringing the wisdom and that it's, it isn't really less scary than it may seem at first glance.

Dawn Mancuso: I think the ASAE PAC has a particular challenge in that so many of our members who are politically [00:11:00] inclined or advocacy inclined are focused on the needs of their member organizations or their member professionals. And so they use their time and energies to put forth the messaging that their members need.

Oftentimes forget about the ecosystem they work in, right? As we've learned this past year, that ecosystem we've taken for granted, and it's not something that will survive without the support of everybody in the community. And that not only impacts our own organizations as our own associations, but affects our members, and we all need to get behind this.

Mary Kate Cunningham, CAE: In terms of educating candidates, we know so many states are strongly considering or moving forward with gerrymandering this year. So congressional districts will change and there can be a lot of new faces that we need to educate. So I think the pressure just is continuing for telling the story. 

Jarrod A. Clabaugh, CAE: What factors do you think contributed the most to the successes A SAE had earlier [00:12:00] this year? Mary Kate? 

Mary Kate Cunningham, CAE: I think it's waving the flag early. I think getting on everyone's radar really early before the tax cuts and Jobs Act provisions expire, I think was very helpful. But we know, like Dawn said, our members have to focus on their own members first. That's their day job and it's really ASAE's job to care for the advocacy issues for the whole community.

So I think because we were able to stand up our Community Impact Coalition early, it really helped people say, I'm gonna support the coalition. I've gotta focus on my own members, but here's this support to help you guys tell the story better. So I think that's one of the main elements. 

Jarrod A. Clabaugh, CAE: Mary Kate, I know one time I heard you say it's easier to blow out a candle than it is to put out a forest fire, and I think that's really one of the things that ASAE excelled at in the past year.

And as Dawn has said, and as Mark has said, bringing everyone together no matter what our members' interests are, but defending the industry as a whole. [00:13:00] Given that and given these successes, what should we be on the lookout for moving forward? Do you think there are more turbulent times ahead? 

Mary Kate Cunningham, CAE: Absolutely. We know just last month, the Ways and Means Oversight Subcommittee held a hearing on the tax exempt status of some nonprofits, and there are, or members of Congress on the committee recommending removing exempt status, asking are they truly earning exempt status?

So I think this is not going away. We have to continue to tell that story. We've also done it through polling, especially using. The pollsters of the members of Congress that we really wanna influence so that they can, they feel like they're trusting those numbers, the percentage of voters in their district that would oppose taxes on nonprofits.

That was really helpful. But I think we've got a lot of work ahead in just really telling the story on how we drive the economy and train the workforce, and that increased taxes on associations means less community benefit. 

Jarrod A. Clabaugh, CAE: How do you feel we can maintain momentum and make sure [00:14:00] that leaders keep telling this story not just to their communities, but also to their boards and to their peers?

Mary Kate Cunningham, CAE: I think it's people like Mark and Dawn that take time out of their extremely busy days to engage in ASAE advocacy, and we are so lucky. I think we have the best members in town, and so more association professionals putting their name in the hat to engage in advocacy, I think is the most useful because once a member of Congress can hear from a constituent about how their association is improving their community, I think that's the best proactive measure.

Jarrod A. Clabaugh, CAE: So you guys have all made some great points in the right direction to lead our members and to engage our leadership. I'm gonna direct this question to all of you. Many association execs struggle to inspire leadership level giving. What approaches typically motivate CEOs and board members to contribute?

Dawn Mancuso: The ASAE PAC's mission is an easy one for CEOs and association professionals overall to give, given the [00:15:00] magnitude of the challenge we are facing. But I think there are some tools that. PACS use, one of which is a scorecard that you can keep track of board members' contributions and engagement with the PAC as well as other activities of the organization, I believe uses that approach.

Right, Mary Kate? 

Mary Kate Cunningham, CAE: Yeah, absolutely. We know board members would like to have all their checks, especially in something that's primarily displayed in the board book. So I think that when the leadership starts at the top, especially. Having a host committee has always been really helpful to us as well, because those key leaders wanna see their name among everyone else on the host committee.

Those are two elements that really work for us. 

Jarrod A. Clabaugh, CAE: Great insights. Can you share an example of where a partnership that your organization has or collaboration that your organization has done, whether that's internal or external, significantly boosted visibility or your fundraising results. 

Mary Kate Cunningham, CAE: So this is the coalition that we stood up in tax reform, and [00:16:00] it's more than 115 organizations, all different types of nonprofits around the country.

And I think the great part about this coalition is that congressional staff knew our goal was simple to stop additional taxation on nonprofits. They knew we weren't picking winners and losers. We wanted across the board to keep the tax code treatment of exempt organizations the same. So I think having all those different really diverse groups from associations to disease advocacy organizations, law enforcement organizations, all kinds of nonprofits, I think that really helped us be effective.

And then also if we had a lot of silent partners, orations that are, were. Influential in the space that we just shared. Information, intelligence, talking points so that we could try to again, sing from the same song sheet. 

Jarrod A. Clabaugh, CAE: Great perspectives. What common misconceptions do you encounter from time to time when it comes to pacs?

Dawn Mancuso: I think probably the number one misconception I've encountered is that people [00:17:00] think they can use the organization money as a contribution to the pac, and I think it just means we have to do a better job of educating people what a PAC is and how they work that. Contributions need to be from an individual or contribution from another PAC.

So from time to time we've been able to get contributions from another organization's pack, which is really gratifying. It means that we're sharing, we have a common goal in mind. 

Mary Kate Cunningham, CAE: I think to Dawn’s point is that association PACs are somehow dark money, quote unquote, and I think that's absolutely a misconception.

All contributions over $200 are reported to the federal election committee and are listed on the website. So there's so much sunlight here. This is a really ethical way to support the legal process and candidates, and I think that's one misconception. 

Mark Falzone: Yeah, I agree with that, Mary Kate. I think that a lot of people think that, like you said, that there is something wrong with doting pac and oh my goodness, I could never do that.

And the truth is, this is [00:18:00] just another tool in the toolbox, like I said earlier, for your association or your group. And it's really important to leverage all the tools at your disposal and that not only from an association level, but from a personal level. If there is a cause out there, you want to support, giving to a causes PAC can really further that organization's mission. 

Jarrod A. Clabaugh, CAE: Unfortunately, our time has come to a close. We've flown through the questions we had and we shared a lot of good insights today. Thank you to all of you for being on the panel. I would like to ask before we conclude our conversation, do you guys have any nuggets of knowledge that you would like to provide with our listeners to help them motivate either their members, their board, their leadership, or the communities that they operate in to get involved and to make sure that their voices are being heard?

Mary Kate Cunningham, CAE: I think the often quoted phrase in DC is, if you're not at the table, you're on the menu. And that's absolutely true. So get involved in your own association’s advocacy, get involved in ASAE's advocacy because there are real kind of threats [00:19:00] ahead, frankly. And we really have to be diligent about telling our story for our community.

Mark Falzone: Yeah, PACs are just, like I said earlier, just one tool in the toolbox, but it's an important one. And to me, if somebody is a seasoned professional or wants to really be active in advocating for their association's work or something that they just care about, you want to be making sure that you're leveraging everything that you can.

So, being active in the PAC, contributing to a PAC, being active in lobbying, direct lobbying, being active in grassroots, lobbying, making sure that you're actually doing everything that you can. A lot of people think, oh, I can't do that, or I just think that that's a little weird. That actually couldn't be further from the truth.

What's weird is not doing it because it means you're not advocating for yourself. It means you're not actually participating, and it means you're not contributing to your mission and it means you're not doing your damn job. So make sure you do your damn job, get off your butt and work [00:20:00] tirelessly for your PAC.

Jarrod A. Clabaugh, CAE: Dawn, any last thoughts my friend? 

Dawn Mancuso: Our membership organizations are based on the same premise that our democracy is, that everybody needs to be educated, choose to engage, and take the time to get active. And I think as association executives, there's a moral imperative. We have to walk the talk and we need to do what we ask our members to do by serving as a role model.

By doing what we can to educate others so that they can play as active a role as they would like. I think we are demonstrating to our members and to society and to our members about what the options are for engagements. We are not association executives just from nine to five. We do it throughout our lives, and as Mark so aptly said, PACs are an important tool in that engagement.

Jarrod A. Clabaugh, CAE: I would just throw out there, condensing everything we've talked about today. When you stay silent about the work that you're doing, you are the only one to blame when no one hears your message. [00:21:00] So I would thank all of you. I'm lucky enough to serve on the PAC Committee with Dawn and Mark and many other wonderful people, and to have great public policy advisors like Mary Kate and her team, and the great work that Michelle does on behalf of the association industry.

So I want to thank you for your time today. I want to thank you for your engagement. I wanna thank you for, as my good friend Mark said, get off your damn butts and do something, because otherwise you really shouldn't be complaining about what happens. Thanks to everyone for listening to this episode of Associations NOW Presents.

Join us each month as we explore key topics relevant to association professionals, discuss the challenges and opportunities in the field today, and highlight the significant impact associations have on the economy. In the United States and throughout the world. Again, we'd like to thank our guests today, Mark, Dawn, and Mary Kate.

Be sure to subscribe to our podcast on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you listen to your favorite podcasts. And for more information on the great work being done in the advocacy space, please visit Associations NOW [00:22:00] online.