This episode is in solidarity with the recent indigenous demonstrations at Cop30 in Brazil. Before there was the climate conference known as COP, there was Pre-COP, a negotiating meeting between second-tier delegates held in Milan, Italy. Extinction Rebellion made a protest, blocking traffic, creating a huge swooping bird installation, and going to jail. It caused at least a brief disruption of the conference. We interview one of the lead organizers, who joins us from Rome.