In this episode of the Precision Animal Training Podcast, host Kirsten Kraljevic sits down with Dr. Viviane Thebe from Germany, a trainer known for pioneering work with both chickens and dogs. The conversation follows her path from veterinary medicine into animal behavior, the workshops in Sweden that changed how she saw training, and the practical reality of teaching while caring for her young son. Listeners hear how those early chicken workshops grew in Germany and why she has stayed focused on rapid, precise training. Dr. Thebe also talks about founding a “top trainers” organization that uses friendly competition to push skill and spark new ideas. Stories from workshops and international conferences show why hands-on practice, humility, and sharing methods across species keep the field moving forward. The episode ends with a look at her influence and the collaborative spirit that still drives better training.

Viviane Theby’s main website in Germany is the Tierakademie Scheuerhof: https://www.tierakademie.de/

She also runs the German dog-trainer education site: https://ausbildung.tierakademie.de/

3 Key Takeaways

1. Humility and Growth in Training  

No matter the background or years of experience, real skill in animal training grows from humility and a willingness to keep learning. Dr. Thebe’s first chicken workshops made it obvious how much she still did not know. That realization is a reminder that ongoing education and honest self-assessment matter for every trainer.

2. The Power of Practical Workshops  

Hands-on work, especially with chickens, delivers immediate and unfiltered feedback. These workshops sharpen timing, precision, and the ability to build a solid training plan. They also change how trainers see what is possible with any animal.

3. Building Confidence and Community  

Supportive groups that give trainers a place to demonstrate skill and measure progress raise the bar for everyone. Dr. Thebe’s “top trainers” effort shows how structured programs and friendly competition help people see their own growth and lift standards across the profession.

Quick Training Lessons From The Episode

Here are the wrap-up lessons that Kirsten wanted listeners to remember from this episode:

- Chicken training workshops are humbling and transformative. Real growth starts when you see how much there is still to learn.

- Fast training is not only about speed. It is planning, precision, and knowing what animal learning can actually deliver.

- Demonstrating skill builds confidence. Giving trainers a way to show what they can do raises the standard for the whole field.

- A community of dedicated trainers makes the work feel bigger than any single person.

- Methods learned with chickens transfer directly to other species and make you a stronger trainer across the board.

- Sharing knowledge and supporting others keeps the most effective methods alive and growing.

In this episode of Precision Animal Training, host Kirsten Kraljevic welcomes Jean Donaldson and Dr. Bob Bailey to explore the evolution of animal training education. The conversation highlights Jean Donaldson’s groundbreaking work founding the Academy for Dog Trainers and the impact of introducing rigorous training plans and standardized curricula. The discussion moves through the transition from traditional, aversive-based dog training to science-based methods, emphasizing the importance of technical skill and well-vetted plans. The guests reflect on how critical fundamentals, repetition, and objective measurement are for developing competent trainers and helping pet owners succeed. They also address challenges in motivating owners, the pitfalls of industry gimmicks, and the importance of accurate scientific thinking. The episode closes with a recognition of the past innovators who shaped the field and encouragement for newer generations to embrace strong mechanics and thoughtful methodologies

3 Key Takeaways

1.  The Importance of Fundamentals: Strong foundational skills in animal training are essential. The episode highlights that while new techniques and marketing trends may emerge, mastering core mechanics and sound training plans remains critical for both professional trainers and pet owners alike.

2. Efficiency and Technique Matter Most: Efficient, well-vetted training methods lead to better outcomes. The discussion emphasizes that effective results come from high-quality technique and proper execution rather than from gimmicks or shortcuts. In the context of pet owners, trainers need to focus on teaching what matters most and ensure clients can achieve practical success.

3. Shift from Tradition to Science-Based Training: The conversation showcases the field’s evolution from tradition-based methods to evidence-driven practices. Listeners are reminded of the work it takes to move away from outdated, aversive techniques and toward positive, science-centered approaches that prioritize both animal welfare and owner satisfaction.

Quick Training Lessons From The Episode

Here are the wrap-up lessons that Kirsten wanted listeners to remember from this episode:

1. Fundamentals matter - master your mechanics, rate, criteria, and sound training plans before chasing new gimmicks.

2. Competence comes from hands-on practice, not just theory or online content; good technique must be developed and checked in real-world situations.

3. Efficiency in training is crucial, especially for owners who need fast results to keep motivation high and dogs safely in homes.

4. True progress in the industry comes from standing on the shoulders of those who challenged old methods and devoted their lives to developing effective, humane training.

5. Science should drive training decisions, not tradition or marketing; critical thinking and well-vetted plans always outperform flashy shortcuts.

6. Wanting real results requires disciplined effort—a wish alone changes nothing; apply yourself fully if you want to see true behavioral change.

7. The legacy of great trainers is measured by their impact on future generations, so keep learning, sharing, and refining your craft as the field moves forward.

In this episode of Precision Animal Training, hosts Kirsten Kraljevic and Dr. Bob Bailey welcome renowned trainer Susan Garrett. The conversation explores Susan’s transformative journey from traditional dog training to evidence-based practices inspired by Dr. Bob Bailey and Marian Bailey. Together they reflect on the importance of embracing science, efficient training methods, and the powerful impact of community. Listeners hear insightful anecdotes about the famous chicken camps, practical applications of operant conditioning across species, and the critical role of humility and curiosity in continued learning. Susan also discusses her online education efforts, emphasizing accessible, science-based training for all dog owners. The episode inspires trainers to stay curious, turn challenges into games, and always put the learner’s experience at the center of their approach.

3 Key Takeaways

1. Curiosity and Humility Drive Progress in Training

Throughout the conversation, Susan Garrett and Dr. Bob Bailey emphasize that true growth in animal training comes from staying curious and humble. Both speakers highlight how essential it is for trainers to keep an open mind, remain eager to learn, and challenge their own habits rather than defaulting to familiar techniques. This mindset fosters not only innovation but also promotes ongoing improvement in both the trainer and the animals they work with.

2. Effective Training Relies on Human Mechanics and Scientific Consistency

A recurring theme is the critical importance of focusing on the trainer’s own mechanics and the use of clear, science-based training plans. Dr. Bob Bailey points out that the efficiency of the trainer directly impacts how quickly and effectively desired behaviors are taught. Susan Garrett illustrates that using structured, consistent methods, whether with dogs, chickens, or even spiders, leads to reliable outcomes, reinforcing the idea that operant conditioning works across species when applied thoughtfully.

3. Building Community and Sharing Knowledge Elevates the Profession

The episode highlights the value of community support and knowledge sharing in advancing animal training. Susan Garrett shares her experience cultivating a welcoming, kind online community that helps trainers of all levels learn together. By making high-quality training resources widely available, she demonstrates how access and encouragement can empower trainers to improve their skills, create better lives for their animals, and ensure the continued evolution of ethical, effective training practices.

Quick Training Lessons From The Episode

Here are the wrap-up lessons that Kirsten wanted listeners to remember from this episode:

1. Stay curious, stay humble. The best trainers are committed lifelong learners who question their methods and embrace constant growth.

2. Operant conditioning works, period. Science-based, consistent methods are effective for all animals and all situations.

3. Make learning a game. Turning challenges or boring tasks into games accelerates progress and keeps both you and your animal engaged.

4. Human mechanics matter. Master your own mechanics and timing. They are more important to efficient training than the animal’s initial behavior.

5. Don’t let ego block learning. Moments of friction and failure are natural. Accept them and use them as opportunities to improve.

6. The best training plans are simple, solid, and repeatable. Consistency and clarity in your process set you and your animal up for success.

7. Community amplifies success. Surround yourself with supportive, like-minded trainers who challenge and inspire growth.

8. Invest in giving back. Share quality information widely and help the next generation of trainers thrive.

9. Success in competition does not always mean skillful training. Think critically about whose methods you follow and always prioritize your animal’s wellbeing.

10. Your learning directly benefits your animal. The smarter you train, the more brilliant your animal will become.

In this episode of Precision Animal Training, Kirsten Kraljevic hosts industry legends Dr. Bob Bailey and Ken Ramirez for an insightful discussion on the evolution of animal training, the importance of mechanical skills, and lifelong learning. Ken Ramirez reflects on his diverse career and emphasizes the value of seeking out foundational literature and learning from mentors. The conversation delves into the necessity for trainers to both invest in their own skills and seek critical feedback, highlighting how true mastery requires constant practice and humility. Dr. Bob Bailey recounts the origins of the technology-based approach to training, stressing precise reinforcement delivery and the value of historical context. Both guests advocate for critical thinking, collaboration, and the continued pursuit of knowledge, offering practical advice and encouragement to trainers at all stages of their careers.

3 Key Takeaways

1. Invest in Mechanical Skills and Practice 
Listeners are reminded that reading about training is not enough. True expertise comes from hands-on practice, developing strong mechanical skills, and being open to feedback and self-evaluation. Mastering the foundational skills of timing and reinforcement delivery is what distinguishes a great trainer.

2. Rely on Science and Critical Thinking 
Instead of treating new challenges as if they have no precedent, listeners should research existing scientific literature and the history of the field. Many modern innovations in animal training have roots in earlier work. Critical thinking and a willingness to consult established sources prevent redundant efforts and improve training quality.

3. Clarify Terms and Focus on Animal Outcomes
Miscommunication often arises when trainers use the same terms to mean different things. The hosts encourage listeners to clearly define terminology before discussing or applying concepts. The ultimate goal should always be enhancing animal learning and welfare, rather than winning debates about definitions.

Quick Training Lessons From The Episode

Here are the wrap-up lessons that Kirsten Kraljevic wanted listeners to remember from this episode:

1. Invest in your mechanical training skills. Practice consistently, evaluate yourself honestly, and stay open to critical feedback, no matter how long you have been training. 

2. True progress is found by combining theoretical knowledge with hands-on practical application. Reading and watching others is just the beginning; real growth comes through doing the work yourself. 

3. Stand out by thinking critically. Before you try to create something new or unique, take time to research and explore the history and literature. Often, someone has already explored the solution you seek. 

4. The best trainers are always learning. Approach your work with humility and curiosity, and avoid getting swept up in personalities or fads. Focus on true understanding and continual improvement. 

5. Focus on what works for the animal, not on debating terminology. The ultimate measure of any method is whether it helps the animal learn and thrive, not just what it is called. 

6. Great animal training is about sharing knowledge and building on proven skills. Systematize and pass on what you know so the next generation can keep advancing the field. 

7. Today is a wonderful time to be a trainer. With a wealth of resources and a supportive community available, take advantage of every opportunity to keep learning and growing.

In this episode of Precision Animal Training, host Kirsten Kraljevic welcomes acclaimed trainers Bob Bailey and Phung Luu to explore how merging instinctual and systematic approaches leads to transformative animal training. Phung shares his inspiring journey from rural Vietnam to leading bird shows and consulting for top zoos. He highlights his pivotal shift from intuitive, shooting from the hip methods to science-based systems after attending Bob Bailey’s renowned chicken workshops. The conversation emphasizes the art of observation, the value of empowering both animals and people, and the evolution of animal care philosophies in modern zoos. Phung also offers practical insights on balancing structure with flexibility, the sustaining power of passion in a demanding field, and the importance of choice for animals and learners alike. The episode closes with actionable takeaways for trainers seeking greater clarity, connection, and long-term impact.

Key Listener Takeaways

1. Merging Instinctual and Systematic Training  

Blending natural instincts with structured, science-based systems creates more effective and impactful animal training. Moving from shooting from the hip to a systematic approach helps trainers communicate more clearly and adapt more effectively.

2. The Critical Importance of Observation  

Truly seeing and responding to the animal in front of you rather than the ideal you imagine is fundamental to successful training. Skilled observation allows trainers to adjust quickly and achieve the best outcomes for animals and people.

3. Passion Drives Success and Resilience 
Loving what you do sustains you through difficult times and turns challenges into opportunities. When combined with skill, passion helps trainers persist and continually improve their impact on animals and learners.

Quick Training Lessons From The Episode  

Here are the key lessons Kirsten wants listeners to remember:

1. Embracing structure, moving from instinctual to systematic training, brings greater clarity and impact. 

2. True observation is essential: see and respond to the actual animal in front of you, wherever you are.  

3. Passion drives success. When you love what you do, even the toughest seasons become opportunities.

Timestamps  

00:00 Get To Know Phung Luu  

04:02 Attending Bob’s Workshop  

07:25 Early Animal Training Experiences  

12:31 Transitioning from Rehab to Education  

13:40 Sharing Birds with Inner-City Kids  

17:13 Shift in Training Philosophies  

21:02 Kirsten’s Chicken Training Workshops  

26:26 Cultural Influences on Sharing Work  

29:12 Bird’s Role in the Ceremony  

31:06 Starting with Passion  

34:26 Passion and Respect in Training  

Show Notes

On this episode, Kirsten Kraljevic and Dr. Bob Bailey sit down with longtime student and class assistant Mimmi Pacerek to explore the unique and transformative experience of participating in chicken training workshops. They highlight why these programs deliver such powerful value for animal trainers at every level. At their core, the workshops are designed to train people, not just animals, by placing participants in situations that demand quick, effective decisions under pressure. A central theme is the importance of adapting teaching methods to suit diverse groups and individual learners, using stress thoughtfully to spark real growth. The conversation dives into the personal journeys of participants, the power of unlearning outdated practices, and the irreplaceable role of hands-on experience, mentorship, and community. The episode closes by celebrating the supportive network and lasting professional relationships that emerge from these intensive training experiences.

3 Key Takeaways

1. The Value of Hands-On Animal Training Workshops  

The conversation spotlights the profound impact of immersive chicken training workshops. These programs push trainers to adapt, think critically, and make rapid decisions—skills that transfer directly to animal training in any setting. Participants repeatedly describe how the lived experience of practicing these decision-making processes reshapes behavior and builds deeper understanding in ways that theory alone never could.

2. Importance of Adapting Teaching Methods to Individuals  

Effective instruction in these workshops goes far beyond the animals. Instructors must carefully observe each participant and tailor their approach to match different learning styles. This individualized focus helps trainers unlearn less effective habits and achieve genuine growth through personalized guidance and thoughtful challenge.

3. Building a Supportive Training Community  

The workshops create a powerful sense of community built on shared breakthroughs, ongoing mentorship, and mutual support. This network encourages continued learning, adaptation, and the preservation of proven training methods for future generations of trainers.

Quick Training Lessons From The Episode

Here are the key takeaways Kirsten wants listeners to carry with them:

1. The true focus of Chicken Workshops is training people. Changing your own behavior is the foundation of effective animal training. 
 

2. Decision-making under pressure is a vital skill. Every session is engineered to sharpen your ability to make quick, thoughtful choices.  

3. Real growth requires the willingness to unlearn old habits and embrace new techniques, even when it feels uncomfortable.  

4. Hands-on experience and technical skills gained in these workshops cannot be replaced by theory alone.  

5. The power of mentorship, community, and collaboration is immense. Being surrounded by dedicated trainers dramatically accelerates learning and positive change. 
 

6. Keeping these training methods accessible for the next generation is essential. The continued evolution of the field depends on it.

In this episode, Kirsten Kraljevic and Dr. Bob Bailey sit down with Simon Prins, a pioneering animal trainer from the Netherlands. Simon shares his remarkable journey, from his first encounters with Bob Bailey to the challenges of introducing science-based training methods in Europe. He explains the shift from traditional approaches to more efficient, data-driven techniques that are transforming the field.

Key topics include the importance of terminal maneuvers, the innovative use of laser guidance in training, and the value of sharing best practices across organizations. Simon highlights persistence, belief, and continuous learning as he reflects on the gradual but steady evolution of animal training technology. He makes a strong case for transparency, collaboration, and hands-on experience to raise industry standards, while offering practical insights on overcoming resistance to change and spreading evidence-based knowledge worldwide.

Check Out Simon's Blog

Key Listener Takeaways

1. The Power of Openness and Collaboration

Sharing knowledge and breaking down barriers between police, military, and private security organizations is essential for advancing animal training. Simon stresses that real progress happens when trainers openly discuss mistakes, exchange ideas, and learn from one another.

2. Continuous Change and Self-Improvement

The best trainers are those willing to persist through challenges while staying open to changing their own behaviors and beliefs. Simon describes his own years-long journey away from traditional punitive methods toward positive reinforcement, underscoring the need for ongoing curiosity and adaptability.

3. Hands-On Experience Trumps Theory Alone

True expertise requires translating knowledge into mechanical skill through real interaction with animals. Simon points out that while theory matters, nothing replaces practical work, such as training chickens, to develop effective methods.

Quick Training Lessons from the Episode
Here are the key takeaways that Simon Prins and the hosts want you to carry forward:

1. Real progress comes from stepping outside your comfort zone and being willing to change your own behavior, even when it's uncomfortable.  

2. Openly sharing knowledge and experiences across police, security, and private trainers is critical for improving the entire field and delivering better outcomes.  

3. Efficient training blends the best of theory with hands-on practice, turning ideas into reliable mechanical skills with animals.  

4. Quality control and honest self-assessment are vital. Don't hide mistakes; learn from them and help others avoid repeating them.  

5. Perseverance matters. Spreading new ideas and overcoming resistance takes time and belief, but it makes a lasting difference.  

6. Stay curious and keep learning. If you're not willing to adapt and grow, you're holding yourself and the industry back.  

7. The most powerful lessons in animal training, and in life, often come from simple tools, persistent experimentation, and the willingness to fail and try again.

This episode is packed with wisdom for anyone serious about modern, ethical, and effective animal training. Simon's perspective reminds us that the path forward is built on collaboration, humility, and relentless curiosity.

In this episode of Precision Animal Training, Kirsten and Dr. Bob Bailey reflect on their recent workshops with trainers from around the world. They highlight the importance of challenge and rigor in quality animal training education. The discussion explores the pitfalls of oversimplification, the rise of “knockoff” workshops, and why effective programs must push participants to build genuine mechanical and observational skills. Drawing from decades of teaching experience, Dr. Bailey shares memorable stories, including missteps and humorous moments, while stressing that training principles should be kept simple but never easy. He cautions against unnecessary complexity and emphasizes the need for critical thinking, scientific foundations, and well-designed hands-on exercises. Ultimately, the episode serves as a call for aspiring trainers to prioritize skill mastery, evidence-based practice, and the power of simplicity.

3 Key Takeaways

1. The Value of Challenge in Training Workshops

Challenging workshops are a hallmark of quality animal training. If a workshop feels too easy or participants succeed without effort, important skill development is likely missing. Real growth comes from facing difficulties, stretching abilities, and sometimes falling short. These moments reveal exactly where improvement is needed.

2. Simplicity Over Complexity

Making training concepts sound complex does not make them better. Effective training rests on clear, foundational principles. While the principles themselves are simple, mastering them requires focused effort and strong mechanical skills. Simple never means easy.

3. Critical Thinking as a Professional Asset

Strong critical thinking helps trainers separate meaningful methods from flashy marketing and unnecessary jargon. Seek out scientifically sound, clearly presented content and avoid “fluff” that adds little real value.

Quick Training Lessons From The Episode

Here are the key takeaways Kirsten wants listeners to carry with them:

1. If a workshop feels too easy, it probably isn’t worth your time. True learning comes from real challenges and honest struggle. 
 

2. Simplicity is powerful. Keeping training methods simple is the secret to mastery, even though simple does not mean easy.  

3. Skilled animal training depends on mechanical skills, timing, criteria, and rate of reinforcement. These abilities cannot be learned from reading alone. They require real, hands-on experience.  

4. Don’t be fooled by complicated language or fluff. Choose workshops and trainers that communicate clearly, use evidence-based principles, and challenge you meaningfully.  

5. Mistakes are where progress happens. Spilling feed, missing cues, and moments of difficulty are essential stepping stones to real skill.  

6. A strong future in animal training starts with a willingness to work on yourself, keep good records, and embrace practices built on decades of experience and proven results.

In this episode of Precision Animal Training, Kirsten Kraljevic and Dr. Bob Bailey explore the evolution and global impact of modern animal training. They discuss the Baileys’ and Brelands’ pioneering workshops, the challenges of traveling with chickens, and Marian’s health struggles, which eventually led to Dr. Bob Bailey taking the lead at Animal Behavior Enterprises. 

The legacy of their methods spread worldwide as students brought the knowledge back to their home countries. After Marian’s passing, invitations for Dr. Bob to teach internationally grew, expanding the reach of their work even further.

The conversation highlights the universality of behavioral principles across species, shares the story behind innovations like the “keep going” signal, and touches on the human side of things - resilience, mentorship, and adaptation - that have shaped animal training’s effectiveness and global influence. Kirsten and Dr. Bob also reflect on the importance of maintaining scientific rigor while staying open to curiosity and new ideas.

3 Key Takeaways

1. The Spread of Animal Training Methods Worldwide  

Dr. Bob Bailey explained that the global expansion of their techniques came largely from students who attended workshops in the US and then took the methods back to their own countries. International teaching invitations increased after Marian’s passing, helping spread the methodology even wider.

2. Scientific Integrity vs. "Woo Woo" Science  

Kirsten Kraljevic and Dr. Bob Bailey stressed the importance of scientific rigor in animal training. Dr. Bob cautioned against teaching unproven or speculative “woo woo” ideas, emphasizing that only what can be observed and measured should be presented to students.

3. Innovation in Animal Training: The "Keep Going" Signal  

The episode covers the development and power of the “keep going” signal - a tool for maintaining desirable behavior at a distance over time. Dr. Bob described experiments showing how continuous signals (like a whistle or click) could keep animals engaged in tasks, revolutionizing long-distance training in open environments.

Quick Training Lessons From The Episode

Here are the key takeaways Kirsten wants listeners to carry with them:

1. The principles of animal training are universal - they work across species and situations. Commit to the process, not just the individual animal.

2. Real innovation comes from careful observation, measurement, and adaptation. If you can’t observe it, you can’t improve it.

3. The “keep going” signal and bridging techniques can dramatically boost how quickly and confidently animals learn, especially over distance and in difficult environments.

4. The global reach of these ideas comes from dedicated students who take them home and apply them in their own communities.

5. These principles have proven their value across many settings - from zoos to working dog teams - showing their versatility and relevance.

6. History provides a strong foundation, but the future of animal training depends on critical thinking, openness to new information, and the willingness to let go of ideas that don’t hold up. Embrace knowledge, but release the “woo woo.”

7. Supporting and protecting students matters just as much as the material itself. There’s real responsibility that comes with sharing powerful - and sometimes controversial - information.

In this episode of Precision Animal Training, Kirsten Kraljevic and Dr. Bob Bailey dive into the wild logistics and rich history behind taking chicken training workshops on the road across North America. Dr. Bob Bailey shares stories of hauling 42 chickens, tons of feed, and custom-built equipment from coast to coast. He navigated complex state and international animal inspection rules while keeping high welfare standards for the birds, often going well beyond what the industry required. The episode is packed with inventive solutions for life on the road, like building odor filters for hotel stays and shoveling 200 pounds of ice into the trailer to keep the chickens cool during desert crossings. It highlights the dedication, creativity, and grit it took to bring hands-on animal training directly to the public and shows why these workshops still matter today.

3 Key Takeaways

1. Logistical Challenges of Traveling Animal Workshops  

Transporting chickens across the U.S. and Canada demanded serious planning, health inspections, and the right paperwork to meet state and federal agriculture regulations. The process was extra complicated because of poultry's high value and strict disease-control measures.

2. Innovative Solutions for Animal Welfare on the Road  

Keeping the chickens comfortable on long hauls required plenty of creative thinking. Dr. Bob Bailey built portable cages with odor-filtering systems and found ways to protect them in extreme conditions, including loading hundreds of pounds of ice to cool the trailer through desert stretches.

3. Dedication to High Standards of Care  

Unlike commercial poultry operations, these workshop chickens lived much longer lives, often reaching 8 to 10 years. Dr. Bob Bailey and Kirsten Kraljevic stress the daily commitment it took to maintain their health and comfort, with most of that behind-the-scenes work kept quietly out of the public eye.

Quick Training Lessons From The Episode

Here are the key takeaways Kirsten wants listeners to carry with them:

1. Preparation and adaptability are everything. Traveling with animals calls for solid planning plus plenty of on-the-spot problem solving, whether you're handling paperwork or figuring out how to keep chickens happy on the road.

2. Attention to detail in animal care sets you apart. Going above and beyond industry standards, even in tough situations, shows real commitment to the animals' long-term well-being.

3. Behind-the-scenes work matters. The smooth workshops and presentations you see depend on countless unseen hours of cleaning, feeding, and protecting the animals.

4. Resilience is vital. Whether facing bureaucracy, extreme weather, or surprise problems, determination and persistence turn obstacles into great adventures.

5. The knowledge and legacy are worth preserving. Keeping these stories and techniques alive is crucial for the future of animal training and education.