Probation Perspectives: Insights into Community Justice

In this episode, we examine public protection and Serious Further Offences (SFOs). Dr Andy Williams and Emeritus Professor Mike Nash discuss the challenges of managing individuals assessed as posing a high risk of serious harm, exploring how political pressures and organisational contexts shape probation practice. They highlight the importance of professional curiosity, reflective practice, and inter‑agency collaboration in effective public protection work.

The episode also features Dr Dominic Pearson, who shares findings from his research on SFO reviews, examining what they reveal about accountability, organisational learning, and how probation can better support improvement rather than blame.

This episode offers a thoughtful and evidence‑informed look at the complexities of public protection and risk management and is essential listening for PQiPs, probation practitioners, and anyone interested in serious harm prevention in community justice.

Probation Perspectives: Insights into Community Justice is a podcast exploring the world of probation, rehabilitation, and community justice. Hosted by Megan Thomas and Ceri Halfpenny from the University of Portsmouth, this series delves into key issues affecting probation practice, featuring expert insights, research, and real-world experiences.

Chapters

00:00 Intro to Probation Perspectives 

02:02 Defining Public Protection

04:11 The Politics of Public Protection

08:00 The History of Public Protection Agenda

12:04 Learning from Serious Further Offence Reviews

18:01 The Role of Professional Curiosity

21:56 Improving Practice in Probation

25:46 Key Learning Points from SFO Inquiries

32:39 Understanding Modern Probation Workload Challenges

36:20 Key Readings for Trainees in Probation

38:04 Reflective Exercises for Trainees

41:36 Insights from Empirical Research on SFOs

46:22 The Role of Reflective Practice in Risk Management

51:26 Influencing Outcomes in High-Risk Cases

54:05 Building Confidence in Managing High-Risk Cases

57:12 The Importance of Offender Perspectives in Reviews

01:00:07 Final Reflections on Risk Management and Practice

Show notes and readings

We’d like to extend our heartfelt gratitude to everyone who made Probation Perspectives: Insights into Community Justice possible.

• Freddie Hunt – Podcast producer

• Jill Dealey – Podcast development and content support

• Lauren Meredith – Logo and jingle development

• Jenn Grant & Michelle McDermott – Management and support

• All of our guests for sharing their expertise and experience

Here are the readings that were referred to in the episode:

Ansbro, M. (2010). The nuts and bolts of risk assessment: When the clinical and actuarial conflict. The Howard Journal of Criminal Justice, 49(3), 252-268. https://doi.org/10.1111/j.1468-2311.2010.00614.x

Harrison, K. (2012). Dangerousness, risk and the governance of serious sexual and violent offenders. Routledge.

Kemshall, H. (2008). Understanding the management of high-risk offenders. McGraw-Hill Education (UK).

Nash, M. (1999). Police, probation, and protecting the public. London: Blackstone.

Nash, M. (2006). Public protection and the criminal justice process. Oxford University Press.

Nash, M., & Williams, A. (2008). The anatomy of serious further offending. Oxford University Press.

Nash, M., & Williams, A. (Eds.). (2010). Handbook of public protection. Willan

Nash, M. & Williams, A. (2024) Politics and Public Protection. Emerald Publishing Limited.

Pearson, D. A., & Carey, G. (2025). Independent serious case reviews relating to serious further offences since 2005: A thematic review. Probation Journal, 02645505241301012.

Pearson, D., & Molino, D. (2025). Probation staff reflective practice: Can it impact on outcomes for clients with personality difficulties? In J. Grant, L. Haggar, & M. McDermott (Eds.), Reflections on probation: A companion resource for developing practitioners (pp. 44–62). Policy Press.

In this episode, we are joined by Dr Sarah Waite and Dr Alexandria Bradley from Leeds Beckett University to discuss their research on women’s problem‑solving courts and women’s experiences of the criminal justice system. They explore what makes these courts distinct, why gender‑responsive approaches matter, and how communication, meaningful participation, and strengths‑based, trauma‑informed practice can support positive engagement and change for women in contact with probation.

This thoughtful and evidence‑led episode highlights what women’s problem‑solving courts can teach us about better supporting women in contact with probation, offering valuable insights for PQiPs, practitioners, and anyone interested in developing more responsive and humane justice practices.

Probation Perspectives: Insights into Community Justice is a podcast exploring the world of probation, rehabilitation, and community justice. Hosted by Megan Thomas and Ceri Halfpenny from the University of Portsmouth, this series delves into key issues affecting probation practice, featuring expert insights, research, and real-world experiences.

Chapters:

00:00 Intro to Probation Perspectives

02:04 Trauma-Informed & Gender-Responsive Practices

05:02 Exploring Problem-Solving Courts

09:47 Environment's Role in Court Experiences

15:06 Probation Officers & Women's Centres

20:00 Effective Communication in Courts

24:53 Collaboration for Better Outcomes

30:08 Reflective Practice Importance

35:13 Final Thoughts & Recommendations

Show notes and readings:

We’d like to extend our heartfelt gratitude to everyone who made Probation Perspectives: Insights into Community Justice possible.

• Freddie Hunt – Podcast producer

• Jill Dealey – Podcast development and content support

• Lauren Meredith – Logo and jingle development

• Jenn Grant & Michelle McDermott – Management and support

• All of our guests for sharing their expertise and experiences

Here are the details of the resources and readings that were referred to within the episode:

Padmanabhan, K. (2025). Thinking Intersectionally about State Power and Resistance in the Breddon Women’s Center in England. Social Politics: International Studies in Gender, State & Society, jxaf061.

Waite, S., & Rutter, N. (Eds.). (2026). Women, Relationships & Criminal Justice: The Personal and Professional. Policy Press.

Listening to Women, Learning for Justice: A Time to Reflect and Reimagine | Leeds Beckett University Co-authored by Dr Sarah Waite and Dr Alexandria Bradley

In this episode, we are joined by Jennifer Walmsley, Co‑Director of BearFace Theatre, a Hampshire‑based organisation working exclusively in the local area through applied theatre. BearFace’s work supports people on probation, women in the justice system, and criminal justice practitioners within Hampshire.  Jennifer discusses how creative and participatory theatre approaches can open up new ways of understanding identity, agency, and change. The conversation explores how creativity can support desistance, build confidence and resilience, and create space for reflection, not only for people on probation, but also for the practitioners who work alongside them.

This inspiring episode shines a light on the human side of rehabilitation and the value of locally rooted, creative practice. It invites PQiPs, probation practitioners, and local justice professionals to consider how creativity can support meaningful change and help people imagine more positive futures.

Probation Perspectives: Insights into Community Justice is a podcast exploring the world of probation, rehabilitation, and community justice. Hosted by Megan Thomas and Ceri Halfpenny from the University of Portsmouth, this series delves into key issues affecting probation practice, featuring expert insights, research, and real-world experiences.

Chapters

00:00 Introduction to Probation Perspectives

02:01 Jennifer Walmsley's Journey into Applied Theatre

06:41 Understanding Applied Theatre in Probation Settings

11:31 The Role of Creativity in Desistance

14:39 Transformative Moments in Creative Activities

20:16 Supporting Probation Practitioners through Creativity

26:07 Reflection, Self-Care, and Vicarious Trauma in Practice

36:06 Cultural Shifts for Better Rehabilitation

Show notes and readings:

We’d like to extend our heartfelt gratitude to everyone who made Probation Perspectives: Insights into Community Justice possible.

• Freddie Hunt – Podcast producer

• Jill Dealey – Podcast development and content support

• Lauren Meredith – Logo and jingle development

• Jenn Grant & Michelle McDermott – Management and support

• All of our guests for sharing their expertise and experiences

Here are the details of the resources and readings that were referred to within the episode:

Bearface theatre website - https://www.bearfacetheatre.org/ 

Brene Brown - details about her books and podcasts on this website https://brenebrown.com/ 

Maté, G. (2022). The myth of normal: Trauma, illness and healing in a toxic culture. Knopf Canada.

Walmsley, J., & Haggar, L. (2025). Creating space for reflection and connection: learning from the creative arts and the third sector. In Reflections on Probation (pp. 134-154). Policy Press.

Waite, S., & Rutter, N. (Eds.). (2026). Women, Relationships & Criminal Justice: The Personal and Professional. Policy Press.

National Criminal Justice Arts Alliance website: https://artsincriminaljustice.org.uk/

Geece Theatre Handbook, details available here: https://www.geese.co.uk/the-geese-handbook/ 

Kasia Urbaniak (2021) Unbound: A Woman’s Guide to Power. Penguin

Thompson, J. (2012) Applied Theatre, Bewilderment and Beyond. Peter Lang

Most prison officers and probation practitioners overlook a simple truth: trust and genuine human connection are the real keys to reform. Andi Brierley, a former youth justice worker turned academic and editor of The Good Prison Officer, reveals how the most effective practitioners build trust not through protocol or robotic routines, but through empathy, authenticity, and understanding how their own behaviour impacts others. This episode challenges you to rethink the way justice professionals form relationships, because the difference is in how you make people feel.

Andi’s own life story, rising from substance addiction and multiple prison sentences to becoming an influential voice in community justice, shapes his bold perspective on reform. He shares powerful insights on how lived experience deepens practice, why trust is the foundation of desistance, and how bureaucratic systems can hinder genuine connection. Discover practical ways to foster compassion in challenging environments, from prison corridors to probation meetings, and how small shifts in practice can reshape outcomes at every level of the criminal justice system. If you want to see systems through the eyes of those they serve and lead with compassion, this episode is for you.

Probation Perspectives: Insights into Community Justice is a podcast exploring the world of probation, rehabilitation, and community justice. Hosted by Megan Thomas and Ceri Halfpenny from the University of Portsmouth, this series delves into key issues affecting probation practice, featuring expert insights, research, and real-world experiences.

Chapters:

00:00 - Intro to Probation Perspectives

01:45 - Andi Brierley's Youth Justice Journey

06:47 - Building Trust in Probation Practices

13:30 - Challenges in Developing Trust

17:37 - Impact of Prison on Individuals

20:52 - Insights into Justice Systems

27:04 - Adversity, Change, and Growth

32:58 - Reflective Practice in Probation

Show notes and readings:

We’d like to extend our heartfelt gratitude to everyone who made Probation Perspectives: Insights into Community Justice possible.

• Freddie Hunt – Podcast producer

• Jill Dealey – Podcast development and content support

• Lauren Meredith – Logo and jingle development

• Jenn Grant & Michelle McDermott – Management and support

• All of our guests for sharing their expertise and experiences

Here are the details of the resources and readings that were referred to within the episode:

Brierley, A. (2019). Your honour can I tell you my story?. Waterside Press.

Brierley, A. (2023). The good prison officer. New York: Routledge.

Brierley, A., & Dennehy, M. (2025). The rehabilitation industry: Lived experience and performance. Probation Journal, 72(3), 317-324.

Brierley, A. (2026). ‘I sit somewhere in that sort of sweet spot’: Liminal legitimacy in criminal justice practice. Punishment & Society, 14624745261436432.

Brierley, A., & Best, D. (2025). Desistance habitus: Strategically Using experience in practice. Incarceration: An International Journal of Imprisonment, Detention and Coercive Confinement, 6.https://doi.org/10.1177/26326663241310603

Foucault, M. (2019). Discipline and punish: the birth of the prison. Penguin

Johns, D. (2017). Being and becoming an ex-prisoner. Taylor & Francis Group.

van der Kolk, B. A. (2015). The body keeps the score: Brain, mind, and body in the healing of trauma. Penguin Books

Most discussions about AI in probation focus on automation, but what if the real opportunity lies in enhancing human connection and ethical practice? In this episode, we uncover how technology like electronic monitoring and generative AI can support, not replace, the vital relational work that defines probation. Join Professor Mike Nellis and Louis Allgood as they explore the evolution of probation technology, from GPS ankle bracelets to speech AI, and reveal how the future of community justice hinges on balancing innovation with moral responsibility.

You'll discover the origins and limitations of electronic monitoring, and what lessons Europe offers for ethical implementation. Learn how generative AI like ChatGPT can support professional judgement, active listening, and relationship-building. We discuss practical frameworks for evaluating AI tools to ensure they serve public safety and human dignity, and why meaningful human control is critical in a rapidly digitalising environment. This episode argues that the most effective, ethical probation practice in the digital age remains rooted in human connection, professional judgement, and thoughtful implementation.

Probation Perspectives: Insights into Community Justice is a podcast exploring the world of probation, rehabilitation, and community justice. Hosted by Megan Thomas and Ceri Halfpenny from the University of Portsmouth, this series delves into key issues affecting probation practice, featuring expert insights, research, and real-world experiences.

Chapters:

00:00 – Introduction

00:51 – Technology’s Role in Probation

04:02 – Electronic Monitoring Explained

07:54 – Artificial Intelligence in Probation

09:58 – The Human Element

12:54 – Ethical Concerns and Risks

29:21 – Challenges of AI and Monitoring

47:28 – Envisaging the Future of Probation Technology

Show notes and readings:

We’d like to extend our heartfelt gratitude to everyone who made Probation Perspectives: Insights into Community Justice possible.

• Freddie Hunt – Podcast producer

• Jill Dealey – Podcast development and content support

• Lauren Meredith – Logo and jingle development

• Jenn Grant & Michelle McDermott – Management and support

• All of our guests for sharing their expertise and experiences

  
  

Here are the details of the resources and readings that were referred to within the episode:

Alegre (2024) Human rights, robot wrongs: Being human in the age of AI

Nellis, M. (2022). From electronic monitoring to artificial intelligence: technopopulism and the future of probation services. In Reimagining Probation Practice (pp. 207-224). Routledge.

AI Action plan for Justice: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/ai-action-plan-for-justice/ai-action-plan-for-justice 

Justice AI Unit website: https://ai.justice.gov.uk/ 

Probation Perspectives: Insights into Community Justice is a podcast exploring the world of probation, rehabilitation, and community justice. Hosted by Megan Thomas and Ceri Halfpenny from the University of Portsmouth, this series delves into key issues affecting probation practice, featuring expert insights, research, and real-world experiences.

In this episode, we are joined by Professor Matthew Millings, who shares insights from his recent project, Rehabilitating Probation, and Associate Professor Matt Tidmarsh from the Probation Institute. Together, they explore what it means to rehabilitate not only those supervised by Probation, but the Probation Service itself. The conversation examines the evolving identity of Probation as a profession, the impact of continual organisational change, and the challenges facing practitioners working within a complex and pressurised system. Matthew and Matt reflect on the role of research, professional values, and collective voice in shaping Probation’s future, and consider how Probation can reclaim a sense of purpose, coherence, and legitimacy.

This rich and reflective episode invites PQiPs, Probation practitioners, and anyone interested in Community Justice to think critically about Probation’s past, present, and future and what it means to imagine Probation as a values‑led profession with a clear and confident identity.

Chapters:

00:00 - Introduction

01:50 - Matthew Millings & Dr Matt Tidmarsh

05:03 - Impact of Organisational Change

12:06 - Motivations for Rehab Project

25:50 - Defining Rehabilitation in Probation

37:30 - Continuous Learning & Reflection

45:23 - Building Relationships & Engagement

54:38 - Reimagining Probation: Health View

Show notes and readings:

We’d like to extend our heartfelt gratitude to everyone who made Probation Perspectives: Insights into Community Justice possible.

• Freddie Hunt – Podcast producer

• Jill Dealey – Podcast development and content support

• Lauren Meredith – Logo and jingle development

• Jenn Grant & Michelle McDermott – Management and support

• All of our guests for sharing their expertise and experiences

Here are the details of the resources and readings that were referred to within the episode:

You can find out more about the Rehabilitating Probation project on their website here: https://rehabilitating-probation.org.uk/

• The Probation Institute offers professional membership, leadership, and evidence‑based resources for the sector. Find out more or join here: https://www.probation-institute.org/

• Tidmarsh, M. (2025). Probation Governance, Identity, and Practice: Making, Unmaking, Remaking. Taylor & Francis.

• Dominey, J. (2019). Probation supervision as a network of relationships: aiming to be thick, not thin. Probation Journal, 66(3), 283-302.

• Public Health England (2020). Health and social care needs assessment of adults under probation service supervision in the community. A guidance document. London: Public Health England. https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/adults-on-probation-health-and-social-care-needs-assessment

Probation Perspectives: Insights into Community Justice returns for its second series, continuing to explore the world of probation, rehabilitation, and community justice. Hosted by Megan Thomas and Ceri Halfpenny from the University of Portsmouth, the podcast brings together voices from practice, research, and lived experience to reflect on the realities of probation work and the values that underpin it.

In this trailer, Megan and Ceri introduce what’s ahead for Series 2, building on the reflective, practice‑focused conversations of the first series while widening the lens to consider some of the major developments shaping probation today. This season will explore topics such as the rehabilitation of the Probation Service itself, the opportunities and risks of emerging technologies and AI, the role of lived experience in professional identity, and how the service learns from serious incidents and public protection work.

With contributions from leading researchers, practitioners, and thinkers, Series 2 invites listeners to reflect on probation’s past, present, and future and to engage with honest, thoughtful conversations about how the profession continues to evolve. Whether you’re a practitioner, PQiP, educator, student, or simply interested in Community Justice, we’re excited to welcome you back.

We’d like to extend our heartfelt gratitude to everyone who made Probation Perspectives: Insights into Community Justice possible.

• Freddie Hunt – Podcast producer

• Jill Dealey – Podcast development and content support

• Lauren Meredith – Logo and jingle development

• Jenn Grant & Michelle McDermott – Management and support

• All of our guests for sharing their expertise and experiences

For more information about PQiP training at the University of Portsmouth, visit: https://www.port.ac.uk/study/studying-while-working/probation-officer-training.

Probation Perspectives: Insights into Community Justice is a podcast exploring the world of probation, rehabilitation, and community justice. Hosted by Megan Thomas and Ceri Halfpenny from the University of Portsmouth, this series delves into key issues affecting probation practice, featuring expert insights, research, and real-world experiences.

In this episode, we speak with Dr Madeline Petrillo, Associate Professor of Criminology at the University of Greenwich and former probation officer. Madeline shares her journey into trauma-informed practice, reflecting on the emotional impact of frontline work, the gendered nature of trauma, and the power of compassionate supervision. She explores the challenges and potential of embedding trauma-informed approaches within probation, offers insights from her work on the innovative Hope Street project, and highlights the importance of reflective practice and practitioner wellbeing. With powerful stories, practical examples, and critical reflections, this episode is essential listening for PQiPs, probation officers, and anyone committed to building a more responsive and humane justice system.

Please be aware that this episode includes discussion of sexual violence and abuse, which some listeners may find distressing. Take care while listening, and feel free to pause or step away if you need to.

Chapters

00:00 Introduction

02:15 Dr Madeline Petrillo

05:03 Realities for women

07:32 Trauma-informed meaning

13:13 Writing on trauma

17:00 Why trauma matters

20:25 Pathways to crime

25:48 Hope Street project

30:33 Trauma principles

Show notes and readings:

We’d like to extend our heartfelt gratitude to everyone who made Probation Perspectives: Insights into Community Justice possible.

• Freddie Hunt – Podcast producer

• Jill Dealey – Podcast development and content support

• Lauren Meredith – Logo and jingle development

• Jenn Grant & Michelle McDermott – Management and support

• All of our guests for sharing their expertise and experiences

Here are the details of the resources and readings that were referred to within the episode:

• Corston, J. (2007) The Corston Report: a review of women with particular vulnerabilities in the criminal justice system. https://prisonreformtrust.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/08/The-Corston-Report.pdf

• Herman, J. L. (2015). Trauma and recovery: The aftermath of violence--from domestic abuse to political terror. Hachette UK.

• Ministry of Justice. (n.d.). Women’s Justice Board. GOV.UK. https://www.gov.uk/government/groups/womens-justice-board

• Petrillo, M., & Bradley, A. (2022). Working with trauma in adult probation: HM Inspectorate of Probation research and analysis bulletin 2022/02. Her Majesty's Inspectorate of Probation.

• Petrillo, M. (2023). Women, trauma, and journeys towards desistance: Navigating the labyrinth. Routledge.

• Phillips, J., Westaby, C., & Fowler, A. (2020). Emotional labour in probation. https://hmiprobation.justiceinspectorates.gov.uk/document/emotional-labour-in-probation/

• Shepherd, B. (2022). Women working with women–vicarious trauma in the probation service. Probation Quarterly, 24, 24-28.

Probation Perspectives: Insights into Community Justice is a podcast exploring the world of probation, rehabilitation, and community justice. Hosted by Megan Thomas and Ceri Halfpenny from the University of Portsmouth, this series delves into key issues affecting probation practice, featuring expert insights, research, and real-world experiences.

In this episode, we speak with Dr Sarah Lewis, Director of Penal Reform Solutions and Grow Transform Belong. Sarah shares her journey from PSO to reform advocate and researcher, reflecting on the power of therapeutic relationships, the influence of culture, and the role of hope in probation and prisons. She introduces the concept of “Justice 2.0,” a global campaign for cultural transformation, and offers practical insights on managing professional boundaries, ruptures in relationships, and reflective practice. With powerful messages on rehabilitation, lived experience, and emotional resilience, this episode is essential listening for PQiPs, probation officers, and anyone interested in meaningful and humane rehabilitation within the criminal justice system.

Show notes and readings:

We’d like to extend our heartfelt gratitude to everyone who made Probation Perspectives: Insights into Community Justice possible:

• Freddie Hunt – Podcast producer

• Jill Dealey – Podcast development and content support

• Lauren Meredith – Logo and jingle development

• Jenn Grant & Michelle McDermott – Management and support

• All of our guests – For sharing their expertise and experiences

Chapters

00:00 Introduction

01:40 Dr Sarah Lewis

04:52 Therapeutic Alliance

08:40 Red & Green Spaces

10:50 Mending Relationships

13:00 Justice 2.0 Launch

16:45 Reforming Prisons

19:30 Advice for Trainees

32:00 Reflective Practice

Here are the details of the resources and readings that were referred to within the episode:

• Penal Reform Solutions: https://penalreformsolutions.com/

• Grow, Transform, Belong: https://www.growtransformbelong.com/

• Albom, M. (2002). Tuesdays with Morrie: An old man, a young man, and life's greatest lesson. Crown.

• Akerman, G., Needs, A., & Bainbridge, C. (2017). Transforming environments and rehabilitation. Taylor & Francis.

• Rogers, C. R. (1995). On becoming a person: A therapist's view of psychotherapy. Houghton Mifflin Harcourt.

• Wakeman, S. (2014). Fieldwork, biography and emotion: Doing criminological autoethnography. British Journal of Criminology, 54(5), 705-721.

Disclaimer: The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the individual speakers and do not necessarily reflect the views of the University of Portsmouth, the podcast hosts, or any affiliated organisations or employers.

Probation Perspectives: Insights into Community Justice is a podcast exploring the world of probation, rehabilitation, and community justice. Hosted by Megan Thomas and Ceri Halfpenny from the University of Portsmouth, this series delves into key issues affecting probation practice, featuring expert insights, research, and real-world experiences.

In this episode, we speak with Robert McKeon, an Independent Member of the Parole Board, about the realities of parole decision-making and the vital role probation officers play in assessing and managing risk. Rob reflects on the evolution of the parole process, the framework used to assess whether someone can be safely released, and offers invaluable advice for trainee probation officers preparing for oral hearings. We explore key concepts such as risk, reflective practice, and professional curiosity, and discuss how transparency, fairness, and a whole-person approach are critical to public protection.

Chapters

0:00 Introduction

1:24 Robert Mckeon

4:35 Life in Probation

9:15 High-Risk Offenders

13:02 Role of Parole Boards

17:18 Parole Misconceptions

21:46 Success Stories

26:32 Systemic Challenges

41:21 Hopes for Reform

Show notes and readings:

We’d like to extend our heartfelt gratitude to everyone who made Probation Perspectives: Insights into Community Justice possible:

• Freddie Hunt – Podcast producer

• Jill Dealey – Podcast development and content support

• Rob Hobbs – Technical support

• Lauren Meredith – Logo and jingle development

• Jenn Grant & Michelle McDermott – Management and support

• All of our guests – For sharing their expertise and experiences

  
  

Here are the details of the readings that were referred to within the episode:

McKeon, R (2024) Parole: The Fate of Prisoners in My Hands and the High-stakes Risks of Getting it Wrong. Aurum

Gallant, S. (2023). The Road to London Bridge: How I went from a life of violence to stopping the terror attack Fishmongers’ Hall. Seven Dials.

Atkins, C. (2020). A Bit of a Stretch: The diaries of a prisoner. Atlantic Books.

Link to the Parole Board website: https://www.gov.uk/government/organisations/parole-board

Disclaimer: The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the individual speakers and do not necessarily reflect the views of the University of Portsmouth, the podcast hosts, or any affiliated organisations or employers.