Hello, welcome to the bottom up skills podcast I'm Mike Parsons the CEO of Qualitance and we're in the second  Of our product and marketing series. That's right. We are bringing together these two worlds and today is all about what we measure. And we have this little belief that you only get what you measure.

So imagine if you could get product designers and growth hackers, all working off the same data, the same results, the same dashboards. I mean, just think about the metrics. Think about the business insights that you could have. Well, what I'm going to propose to you today is I've got five, five big buckets with a really specific things that you can measure.

And I think they serve product and marketing equally, so let's get into them. [00:01:00] Okay. Five stages of a product journey, five stages of what I would argue to you might be things that we can measure in a marketing team. Things that can make our products so much better. So I'm thinking you probably want to know what they are.

Okay. It's empathy, stickiness. Virality revenue and scale. That's right. These are what I argue will be universal paradigms that both product developers and marketers will have to use in order to bring their worlds together. And what's so interesting is how these will demonstrate for you. Just actually, how similar the needs of data and insights are for product teams and marketing teams.

So let's jump into them. Let's break each of these five down and let's [00:02:00] ask ourselves, what's the sort of gate, what's the sort of objective each of them need to reach in order to go forward into the next stage, because you know, there should be some control method here because you don't want to be blasting away with some big ad campaign when you have yet to prove that this product really satisfies your early adopters.

All right. So let's jump into the world of empathy. And you'll hear me talk about this so much because. My whole bottom-up philosophy really stems from working very closely with customers. So empathy is the key thing we need to embody the key thing we need to do. And in this case, it's stage one, because if you have empathy for your customers, you're actually taking the time to see what jobs they're trying to get done.

What are their pains and gains? And here's the key thing. If you've got a value prop canvas handy, you want to be able to ensure [00:03:00] that the pain relievers, the gain creators, the features of your product, answer to the needs of these customers. Do they truly get the job done? And it sounds insanely simple.

Doesn't it? I always just make sure that we're getting the job done here. But many products don't and I'm going to talk about later in this episode, I'll talk about some of the common mistakes with how we get people on the same page, but let's stick with this idea of empathy and measuring the right thing.

If you are a product developer or marketing person, your number one step is to make sure you have that problem solution fit that there truly is a need in the market. And that it actually could be solved. So what you would measure is the response to prototypes, [00:04:00] uh, the response to interview questions or survey questions you would want to conduct sufficient testing of those three things you'd want to measure those.

When I do a user survey user interview, and then a rapid prototyping session, this will give you the signal that, Hey guys, we found a real PolyMet need that are reachable market faces. Okay. So this is the first data point that you want to have. Now once you've got that, you start getting going, you start building the momentum, and this is for me all about the stickiness.

That's right. Have we got something that's sticky? Have we figured out how to solve that problem in a way that actually the user can adopt, keep using and wait for it, pay for? So this is where we might see. The building of a minimum viable product of some type, [00:05:00] it could be, um, somewhat of a super-light one.

So it's a little bit faked, but it feels real, or it could actually be real code ticking along and actually satisfying the needs of a user group. The key thing here. Is, could you get those early adopters to actually do this roar? Just very essential experience and were they satisfied? And you have to be tough on yourself.

You have to ask yourself where they truly satisfied. Okay. Stickiness. So you have to really help ask yourself here. Do we truly satisfy the user? Did we meet their need? Are they willing? To pay for the product, even in its essential raw. Bare bones, uh, state, because if they will, then you're onto a good thing.

And that means that we can go onto our next thing to test, which is fire reality. Now, if you are from the product world, you may have [00:06:00] heard of the  coefficient, which is simply said for every customer that takes on the product, how many do, how many new customers do they recruit? So what we're really talking about here is testing advocacy.

And testing net promoter scores, very good metrics that inform not only the product people that I talked about, but think about if you're a marketeer and you know that your product is capable of generating new customers without paid marketing efforts, then you have this thing that we call organic growth.

And this is so important because if you have to pay. To attract every single customer that's going to be expensive. But if nobody is talking about rating, reviewing, sharing your product to both teams, it's a signal that things are not quite right. So you've got empathy. You've got [00:07:00] stickiness, you've got virality.

Now we need to move into the world of revenue. Now, this really comes down to some classic marketing metrics, CPC. And a R P U. Now what do all these things mean? Cost per customer? Like what does it cost you to go, go out into the world, place your paid advertising, get your customers, and then attract them into your product.

And what is your average revenue per user? These are key metrics that you would build the marketing campaign on. And likewise, a product person would sit there and say to themselves, Okay. Um, it looks like, uh, we're solving a problem, but it is so hard to reach the customer that we are paying huge dollars per customer conversion.

So. That could blow your business model. On the other hand, you might have a great product, but the willingness to pay, but use it is not particularly high [00:08:00] or maybe what you're monetizing is the wrong part of the product. Many, many, many lessons in there. So regardless of who and where you are, you need to understand what it costs to attract.

The customer and what, what actual revenues you're generating per customer equally, once again, product and marketing people will truly thrive. Now, there is a stage that happens after this. This is the scaling. This is the distribution conversion fit that goes into some sort of continuous iterative process, which is really.

I think at that point, we're getting into growth marketing, which is a whole separate topic, which actually I will be covering on a brand new course this year. So stay tuned for that one. But here we are. The five things that whether you're a product or marketing person, you can all agree to measure empathy, stickiness, vitality, revenue, and scale said differently.

What did we [00:09:00] get back in tens of data? When we actually did a user survey, when we did user interviews, when we prototyped, did we confirm the problem solution? When we build the MVP. Did we satisfy the early adopters in that raw clunky experienc...