
What’s rare and wonderful?



Product managers are unicorns.



What does that mean? 



There are two aspects to our unicornity, to coin a phrase:



* The numbers* The role itself



First of all, let’s look at some numbers. There are almost always fewer product managers in a company than any other role except CEO. There are more VPs than product managers in most product companies. There are five times as many developers, minimum. There are often 10-20 times as many salespeople. 



This means that in our nature, we are statistical outliers. Like unicorns.



But there’s more. 



And it’s related to “what makes a good product manager.”



In this podcast I mostly explore the latter point, especially as it related to defining what makes “a great product manager” and if you can test or screen for that.



The original tweet that got me started on this episode



John Cutler (@johncutlefish on Twitter) tweeted this observation a few weeks ago: 



someone asked me this over the weekend:"what product management skills can be tested and graded"…it bothered me for various reasons. But that might be my bias. Those with a fresh mind on this…. ?#prodmgmt— John Cutler (@johncutlefish) October 15, 2019



The discussion led me down the path that resulted in this episode. 



Links and articles



I mentioned two great books in this episode, How To Measure Anything, by Douglas W. Hubbard, and Decisive, by Chip and Dan Heath. Definitely check them out if you haven’t already. (By the way, I have another podcast episode that includes nine more recommended books if you want to fill your product manager bookshelf/Kindle.)



* One of the canonical lists of Jeff Dean facts.* Anna Marie Clifton’s Medium article about how an art history major becomes a product manager.* My previous podcast episode on empathy and “putting yourself in other peoples’ shoes”* Another podcast episode based on Hubbard’s How To Measure Anything.



Don’t forget to subscribe



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Product Managers Are Unicorns

The Secrets of Product Management podcast by Nils Davis is for all product manager, product marketers, innovators who want to create more value in the world through successful products. (Formerly known as The All The Responsibility, None Of The Authority podcast.)

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Unveiling the PDMA Body of Knowledge with Chad McAllister
This episode my guest Chad McAllister introduces us to the Product Development and Management Association’s (PDMA) Body of Knowledge (BOK), a valuable yet underappreciated resource in product management.
Established in 1976, PDMA has been pivotal in advancing product development and management practices across industries.
Chad, a key figure in the third edition of the PDMA BOK, discusses its importance, contents, and the benefits it offers to both new and experienced product managers.
The conversation also covers Chad’s Product Mastery Now podcast, the significance of certifications, and strategies for increasing PDMA’s visibility in the product management community.

Links

* Chad on LinkedIn
* Chad’s website, including several great training options for product managers.
* The Product Mastery Now podcast – 483 episodes and counting as of these show notes.

* Chad’s episode introducing the PDMA Body of Knowledge (previous edition): TEI 307: Introduction to the PDMA Body of Knowledge for product managers and innovators – with Allan Anderson, PhD


* Learn more about PDMA at pdma.org
* Check out the PDMA Body of Knowledge, Third Edition, on Amazon

 
Unveiling the PDMA Body of Knowledge with Chad McAllister
This episode my guest Chad McAllister introduces us to the Product Development and Management Association’s (PDMA) Body of Knowledge (BOK), a valuable yet underappreciated resource in product management.
Established in 1976, PDMA has been pivotal in advancing product development and management practices across industries.
Chad, a key figure in the third edition of the PDMA BOK, discusses its importance, contents, and the benefits it offers to both new and experienced product managers.
The conversation also covers Chad’s Product Mastery Now podcast, the significance of certifications, and strategies for increasing PDMA’s visibility in the product management community.

Links

* Chad on LinkedIn
* Chad’s website, including several great training options for product managers.
* The Product Mastery Now podcast – 483 episodes and counting as of these show notes.

* Chad’s episode introducing the PDMA Body of Knowledge (previous edition): TEI 307: Introduction to the PDMA Body of Knowledge for product managers and innovators – with Allan Anderson, PhD


* Learn more about PDMA at pdma.org
* Check out the PDMA Body of Knowledge, Third Edition, on Amazon

 

163: Chad McAllister – Unveiling the PDMA Body of Knowledge

Chris Mason on Product Management Jobs
My guest on this episode is Chris Mason, the co-founder and leader of Intelligent People, a recruiting firm in the UK that focuses on product managers and other product people – designers, heads of product, etc.
In our interview, he shares his insights on the state of the product manager job market, hints and tips for folks looking a PM job, and even their first PM job, guidance for those hiring product managers, and lots of other great information.
Chris has been in the recruiting industry almost as long as I’ve been in product management! And as leader of a firm focused specifically on product roles, he has a lot of useful insights for us product managers. Especially if you are looking for a job or hiring people.
Links

* Intelligent People, Chris’ recruiting company. Their website includes job listings, job seeker resources, and a free mentorship offer that’s definitely worth investigating.
* Chris on LinkedIn.
* A few of Chris’s recent posts on LinkedIn:

* On their mentorship scheme.
* His appearance on JJ Rorie’s podcast. (JJ’s been a guest on this podcast, too!)
* A list of resources for folks searching for a new job in 2024.


* Here’s a transcript of this episode!

Comment, rate, subscribe
Please comment on the episode just at the bottom of this page – I’d love to hear your thoughts!
If you like this podcast, please share it with your colleagues and product manager friends, and subscribe via iTunes or your favorite subscription method.
And please consider rating and reviewing the podcast on iTunes or wherever you get your podcasts. The feedback helps other people find the podcast.
Chris Mason on Product Management Jobs
My guest on this episode is Chris Mason, the co-founder and leader of Intelligent People, a recruiting firm in the UK that focuses on product managers and other product people – designers, heads of product, etc.
In our interview, he shares his insights on the state of the product manager job market, hints and tips for folks looking a PM job, and even their first PM job, guidance for those hiring product managers, and lots of other great information.
Chris has been in the recruiting industry almost as long as I’ve been in product management! And as leader of a firm focused specifically on product roles, he has a lot of useful insights for us product managers. Especially if you are looking for a job or hiring people.
Links

* Intelligent People, Chris’ recruiting company. Their website includes job listings, job seeker resources, and a free mentorship offer that’s definitely worth investigating.
* Chris on LinkedIn.
* A few of Chris’s recent posts on LinkedIn:

* On <a href="https://www.

162: Chris Mason on Product Management Jobs and the PM Job Market

Clifton Gilley of Gartner’s Tech Product Management team
In this week’s episode my guest is Clifton Gilley, a long time product manager, and now a VP Analyst with Gartner’s Tech Product Manager team.
Cliff made the jump from product management practitioner to analyst because they had the data. As he says, “What really made me gravitate toward Gartner is I knew that they did research.”
In the interview we delve into what the data says sets successful companies apart. And the answer? Leading companies (we talk about what leaders and laggards mean in Gartner-speak in the interview), are involving product managers in strategy, and it’s an outward facing role, facing the market and customers. Laggards tend to see product as a delivery team, mostly internal facing.
It’s clear in Gartner’s data that the more strategic the product management role, the better the outcomes.

For more, check out the episode.
Links

* Cliff on LinkedIn
* His author page on Gartner’s site, and Gartner’s Tech PM practice site
* The Clever PM blog (in stasis since 2018, but all the articles are still there)

 
Clifton Gilley of Gartner’s Tech Product Management team
In this week’s episode my guest is Clifton Gilley, a long time product manager, and now a VP Analyst with Gartner’s Tech Product Manager team.
Cliff made the jump from product management practitioner to analyst because they had the data. As he says, “What really made me gravitate toward Gartner is I knew that they did research.”
In the interview we delve into what the data says sets successful companies apart. And the answer? Leading companies (we talk about what leaders and laggards mean in Gartner-speak in the interview), are involving product managers in strategy, and it’s an outward facing role, facing the market and customers. Laggards tend to see product as a delivery team, mostly internal facing.
It’s clear in Gartner’s data that the more strategic the product management role, the better the outcomes.

For more, check out the episode.
Links

* Cliff on LinkedIn
* His author page on Gartner’s site, and Gartner’s Tech PM practice site
* The Clever PM blog (in stasis since 2018, but all the articles are still there)

 

161: Clifton Gilley on What The Data Shows About Product Leaders and Product Laggards

Embracing Change and Customer Engagement in Product Management
In this episode Mike Smart, an old friend and longtime product management leader, instructor, and consultant, says we can’t wait for the world to change (quoting an old John Mayer song). Product management needs to seize the day, and actively engage with customers even if it means breaking some glass and stepping on some toes, bending some rules.

Mike shares his history as a product leader, starting from a sales role to becoming a product management consultant.
Mike has an amazing historical perspective on product, and discuss the common challenges faced by product organizations, such as the influence of sales on product development and the importance of customer discovery.
The conversation also touches on the shift towards product marketing management and the vital role of go-to-market strategies in today’s competitive landscape.
Key takeaways include the imperative for product managers to initiate customer conversations and the pivot towards focusing on how products are marketed and understood by potential customers, and for product leaders in particular to have (or develop) business acumen focused on sales velocity rather than just release velocity.
Links and contact information

* Mike on LinkedIn
* Mike’s company, Egress Solutions
* Mike’s podcast is GTM Disrupted. You can listen on its home page, or find it wherever you get your podcasts (here’s the Apple link and the Spotify link).

Support this podcast

* The easiest and best way to support the podcast is to leave me a comment or question, drop a note or connection request to me on LinkedIn, or just send me an email at nils@nilsdavis.com.
* You can also rate and review the podcast on Apple iTunes – that really helps others find it.
* And you can just share the podcast directly with your product manager friends – they’ll probably really appreciate it!

Timings
00:00 Introduction: Waiting for the World to Change
00:34 Guest Introduction: Mike Smart of Egress Solutions
01:03 The Journey of a Product Manager
02:06 The Importance of Customer Conversations
03:22 The Evolution of Product Management
05:19 The Role of Product Marketing
10:22 The Challenges of Product Management
11:31 The Impact of Sales on Product Management
12:46 The Shift in Product Management Focus
14:56 The Importance of Business Acumen in Product Management
23:07 The Role of Go-To-Market in Product Management
33:06 Conclusion: The Future of Product Management
Embracing Change and Customer Engagement in Product Management
In this episode Mike Smart, an old friend and longtime product management leader, instructor, and consultant, says we can’t wait for the world to change (quoting an old John Mayer song). Product management needs to seize the day, and actively engage with customers even if it means breaking some glass and stepping on some toes, bending some rules.


160: Seize the Customer Conversation And Other Advice With Mike Smart

The Transformative Power of Mindsets in Life and Leadership
In this episode, an engaging conversation about mindsets with Ryan Gottfredson, a renowned leadership and management professor, author, and mindset expert.
The core discussion revolves around the foundational role mindsets play in shaping our thoughts, behaviors, and overall success in life, work, and leadership.
Gottfredson emphasizes the potential for profound personal and professional transformation through the understanding and shifting of our mindsets.

The mindsets
He introduces four primary sets of mindsets identified through academic research and discusses the process of ‘vertical development’ as a means of enhancing one’s internal operating system for better outcomes.
The four mindset dimensions are:

* Fixed <-> Growth
* Open <-> Closed
* Prevention <-> Promotion
* Inward <-> Outward

If you take Ryan’s assessment, you’ll find where you stand on each of those dimensions.
How to improve your mindset – vertical development
The conversation also touches upon the impact of trauma on mindsets, the benefits of mindset-oriented personal development, and practical steps anyone can take to work on their mindsets.
Additionally, Gottfredson shares personal anecdotes and insights on overcoming self-protective mindsets for greater productivity and fulfillment, highlighting resources like his mindset assessment and the ‘Success Mindsets’ book.
Links

* Ryan Gottfredson’s site.
* Ryan on LinkedIn.
* Ryan’s mindset-related assessments.
* Ryan’s book, Success Mindsets: Your Keys to Unlocking Greater Success in Your Life, Work, & Leadership.
* Carol Dweck’s book Mindset: The New Psychology of Success, where many of first learned about the growth and fixed mindsets.

Time codes for the episode
00:00 Introduction to Mindsets
00:19 The Power of Shifting Mindsets
00:51 Meet the Guest: Ryan Gottfredson
01:14 The Role of Mindsets in Leadership and Management
02:26 Understanding the Concept of Fixed and Growth Mindsets
02:58 The Journey to Shifting Mindsets
03:45 The Neuroscience Behind Mindsets
06:36 The Impact of Mindsets on Success
07:41 The Process of Vertical Development
24:44 The Role of Trauma in Shaping Mindsets
30:21 Practical Steps to Improve Mindsets
32:11 Conclusion and Contact Information
The Transformative Power of Mindsets in Life and Leadership
In this episode, an engaging conversation about mindsets with Ryan Gottfredson, a renowned leadership and management professor, author, and mindset expert.
The core discussion revolves around the foundational role mindsets play in shaping our thoughts, behaviors, and overall success in life, work, and leadership.
Gottfredson emphasizes the potential for profound personal and professional transformation through the understanding and shifting of our mindsets.

The mindsets
He introduces four primary sets of mindsets identified through academic research and discusses the process of ‘vertical development’ as a means of enhanci...

Product Managers Are Unicorns

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