I get to chat with Andrew Clay Shafer in this episode. Andrew was one of the original pioneers of the DevOps movement. His presentation titled "There Is No Talent Shortage" has always been one of my favorite DevOps presentations. We talked about Andrew's background and how he got into Dr. Deming. He also spoke about his ideas about learning organizations and other interesting topics. It was a great way to end the season. For many years, Andrew has been a mentor and a friend to me.